# | alkaline| 's Build \*\*Update 11-5-09\*\* Weathering Shots **URL:** \ **Category:** Proton Packs\ **Created:** [September 1, 2009, 2:15am UTC](https://forum.gbfans.com/t/alkaline-s-build-update-11-5-09-weathering-shots/31493 "2009-09-01T02:15:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![u\_alkaline\_](https://forum.gbfans.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/u/4bbf92/32.png) [@u\_alkaline\_](https://forum.gbfans.com/u/u_alkaline_)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2009, 3:08pm UTC](https://forum.gbfans.com/t/alkaline-s-build-update-11-5-09-weathering-shots/31493/21 "2009-09-04T15:08:11Z")
> [@bradboss12](#): > > PVC pipe? Why not? Prob 1/4" wall thickness. You can take styrene (maybe 1/16 or 1/8" thick) and glue it with pipe glue to the the top of it and while it’s gooey scupt the “weld” mark around the N-filter (just a thought) what are you using for the plates around the bottom? I think they are 1/8" thick and 2 1/4" by 2 1/8" (chekc the plans to be sure) and there are 15 (one smaller one and 14 about the same size. If you used wood glue on the Synch maybe wood glue the pieces onto it? tricky part would be clamping, maybe use painter’s tape? You seem to be on the right track–just tossing out ideas. Do you have a drill press? That would be great for the holes in the N-filter. More labor than a casting, but cooler and more realistic and stonger made of PVC pipe. Hardware stores like Keystone Plumbing sell it by 5 foot and ten foot lenghts pretty cheap. That’s a lot of N-filters LOL! For the [N-filter](https://www.gbfans.com/wiki/equipment/proton-pack/n-filter) weld line I’m actually gonna take the pvc pipe an route a 1/8" x 1/8" grove all around the top so the weld has something to sit in. I’m gonna try super sculpy or some other putty to make my welds ( still have to research a good weld look cause I don’t want something that looks like pie crust for my welds ha) For the Sync Gen Plates I planed some hard wood down to 1/8" then made some rip cuts on the table saw. They turned out real nice. I’m gonna use epoxy cause it sets faster than the wood glue and takes more abuse. Yes, I’m def gonna use the drill press on the n-filter so i get nice even, clean holes. I think the holes of my n-filter are going to be backed with just aluminum screening. I know they are white in the movie, but I plan on putting a speaker in there…Hmm maybe I’ll paint the screen white? That’s another thing. When I checked for all these pipes at Lowes, while dirt cheap, come in like 10ft lengths. What the hell am I gonna do with 10ft of pipe? ( that’s what she said). I might stop in my local plumbing store and see if they have any cut offs they don’t want. On that note, I think its a nice little tid bit that so far this pack has cost me about 30 in material. The only thing I bought was 2 boards of insulation foam. the rest I’ve had lying around ( like glue and sand paper) or has been scraped together form throw away pieces…one mans trash is another mans Proton accelerator. ---
**Author:** ![bradboss12](https://forum.gbfans.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/b/a88e4f/32.png) [@bradboss12](https://forum.gbfans.com/u/bradboss12)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2009, 3:17pm UTC](https://forum.gbfans.com/t/alkaline-s-build-update-11-5-09-weathering-shots/31493/22 "2009-09-04T15:17:52Z")
yeah, you have more skill than me. I’m more like the A-Team, kitbashing everything with hot glue LOL. But, I got stuff done for the movie. Yeah, I guess you want to make sure those little buggers don’t pull off when you pull off the mold. Yeah, if they are nice they will help with that. Maybe you could save the extra pipe for the side tanks for an Ecto, or the smaller pressure tanks for the [slime blower](https://www.gbfans.com/wiki/equipment/slime-blower), etc. ---
**Author:** ![u\_alkaline\_](https://forum.gbfans.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/u/4bbf92/32.png) [@u\_alkaline\_](https://forum.gbfans.com/u/u_alkaline_)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2009, 2:08am UTC](https://forum.gbfans.com/t/alkaline-s-build-update-11-5-09-weathering-shots/31493/23 "2009-09-08T02:08:44Z")
Hey everyone, Not an update but a question really. I was reading on another pack post that somethings have changed since the stefan plans were created. Before I go any further, does anyone know exactly what’s different or has changed since? Thanks ---
**Author:** ![staticbuster](https://forum.gbfans.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@staticbuster](https://forum.gbfans.com/u/staticbuster)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2009, 2:27am UTC](https://forum.gbfans.com/t/alkaline-s-build-update-11-5-09-weathering-shots/31493/24 "2009-09-08T02:27:18Z")
> [@| alkaline |](#): > > Hey everyone, > > Not an update but a question really. I was reading on another pack post that somethings have changed since the stefan plans were created. Before I go any further, does anyone know exactly what’s different or has changed since? Thanks I think this is what you are refering to? _the different size [cyclotron](https://www.gbfans.com/wiki/equipment/proton-pack/cyclotron) rings, the 15th cosmetic plate, the shelf on the powercell fin, the one piece segmented strip on the lower [crank generator](https://www.gbfans.com/wiki/equipment/proton-pack/crank-generator), and the tapered corner of the PPD…_ I copied that out of Exoray’s thread announcing the V71 Mark X shell he is producing. Just using his pics and that description, I was able to identify all the listed changes. I found this to be most helpful during my current build. There’s probably more discussion on each of these in other threads, but you could spend a lifetime searching for that. Hope this helps. ---
**Author:** ![u\_alkaline\_](https://forum.gbfans.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/u/4bbf92/32.png) [@u\_alkaline\_](https://forum.gbfans.com/u/u_alkaline_)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2009, 2:34am UTC](https://forum.gbfans.com/t/alkaline-s-build-update-11-5-09-weathering-shots/31493/25 "2009-09-08T02:34:13Z")
> [@staticbuster](#): > > > [@| alkaline |](#): > > > > Hey everyone, > > > > Not an update but a question really. I was reading on another pack post that somethings have changed since the stefan plans were created. Before I go any further, does anyone know exactly what’s different or has changed since? Thanks > > I think this is what you are refering to? > > _the different size cyclotron rings, the 15th cosmetic plate, the shelf on the powercell fin, the one piece segmented strip on the lower crank generator, and the tapered corner of the PPD…_ > > I copied that out of Exoray’s thread announcing the V71 Mark X shell he is producing. Just using his pics and that description, I was able to identify all the listed changes. I found this to be most helpful during my current build. > > There’s probably more discussion on each of these in other threads, but you could spend a lifetime searching for that. Hope this helps. I got the 15th plate, but for the other things, is there new measurements or a set of new plans floating around? Even hand sketches will do. ---
**Author:** ![Agent\_Gibbs](https://forum.gbfans.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/a/e95f7d/32.png) [@Agent\_Gibbs](https://forum.gbfans.com/u/Agent_Gibbs)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2009, 10:40am UTC](https://forum.gbfans.com/t/alkaline-s-build-update-11-5-09-weathering-shots/31493/26 "2009-09-08T10:40:57Z")
+1 I have the plate, but ring diameter is something i’m concerned of, and this change to the [power cell](https://www.gbfans.com/wiki/equipment/proton-pack/power-cell), what shelf? ---
**Author:** ![GAVAL](https://forum.gbfans.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/g/b9bd4f/32.png) [@GAVAL](https://forum.gbfans.com/u/GAVAL)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2009, 3:57pm UTC](https://forum.gbfans.com/t/alkaline-s-build-update-11-5-09-weathering-shots/31493/27 "2009-09-08T15:57:49Z")
The [crank generator](https://www.gbfans.com/wiki/equipment/proton-pack/crank-generator) on my scratch pack is the lead screen accurate part of my prop. I’ll be watching this closely to see if there’s anything I can do to make a new box from scratch. I agree with you, it seems like its the most work, which Is why my current crank box is cardboard, but it’s time for an upgrade, and most of my electronics will reside there anyway so they’ll need better protection. G ---
**Author:** ![kind2311](https://forum.gbfans.com/user_avatar/forum.gbfans.com/kind2311/32/187468_2.png) [@kind2311](https://forum.gbfans.com/u/kind2311)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2009, 4:26pm UTC](https://forum.gbfans.com/t/alkaline-s-build-update-11-5-09-weathering-shots/31493/28 "2009-09-08T16:26:03Z")
**see how the top powercell “fin” connects to the main bodo of the pack? it creates a “shelf” on top of the powercell. perhaps “shelf” isnt the best way to describe it.** ![image](https://discdn.gbfans.com/original/3X/2/a/2ae8ac835ddff05735328aa8f1af4ac9b3047e6a.jpeg) ![image](https://discdn.gbfans.com/original/3X/0/d/0debf5ff6112ef30483184d60e57e4311bca5224.jpeg) **If you look closely, you can see the cyclo rings are slighty different diameters:** ![image](https://discdn.gbfans.com/original/3X/c/6/c6f5c150fdd6581a81d7b7a1484249b19b4263f8.jpeg) ![image](https://discdn.gbfans.com/original/3X/2/4/24dd7cb68948e0206ec7e4b35144408270701b9e.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Syco54645](https://forum.gbfans.com/user_avatar/forum.gbfans.com/syco54645/32/305_2.png) [@Syco54645](https://forum.gbfans.com/u/Syco54645)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2009, 4:26pm UTC](https://forum.gbfans.com/t/alkaline-s-build-update-11-5-09-weathering-shots/31493/29 "2009-09-08T16:26:41Z")
there was a list of changes since stefan’s plans a few months back. i’ll see if i can find them. ---
**Author:** ![Syco54645](https://forum.gbfans.com/user_avatar/forum.gbfans.com/syco54645/32/305_2.png) [@Syco54645](https://forum.gbfans.com/u/Syco54645)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2009, 4:30pm UTC](https://forum.gbfans.com/t/alkaline-s-build-update-11-5-09-weathering-shots/31493/30 "2009-09-08T16:30:13Z")
> **[Pack details discovered since Stefan created his plans](https://forum.gbfans.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9307)** > > Ok, in an effort to compile a list of what we have discovered (I’m using the group we, my contribution is typing on this board and trying to help people) since Stefan drew up his awesome plans I thought I’d start this topic. From what I can tell so... there ya go. hope this helps some. ---
**Author:** ![u\_alkaline\_](https://forum.gbfans.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/u/4bbf92/32.png) [@u\_alkaline\_](https://forum.gbfans.com/u/u_alkaline_)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2009, 5:09pm UTC](https://forum.gbfans.com/t/alkaline-s-build-update-11-5-09-weathering-shots/31493/31 "2009-09-08T17:09:32Z")
Ah, thanks Frank. Man I read some of the thread so far and people are REALLY starting to split hairs when It comes to accuracy. I guarantee the real packs weren’t made to such tight constraints as some people make their own to. ---
**Author:** ![Exoray](https://forum.gbfans.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/e/d26b3c/32.png) [@Exoray](https://forum.gbfans.com/u/Exoray)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2009, 5:22pm UTC](https://forum.gbfans.com/t/alkaline-s-build-update-11-5-09-weathering-shots/31493/32 "2009-09-08T17:22:35Z")
> [@| alkaline |](#): > > Ah, thanks Frank. Man I read some of the thread so far and people are REALLY starting to split hairs when It comes to accuracy. I guarantee the real packs weren’t made to such tight constraints as some people make their own to. It’s the difference between trying to create a very accurate replica of the movie pack vs creating a reasonably similar look alike pack… Accuracy is important for one and not so much for the other… As for the original packs they had no frame of reference when building, what they made was what it was, if they decided to do only 5 cosmetic plates is was AOK but when you are trying to replicate what they did you don’t have that flexibility… They had no reason to maintain any accuracy, but when you are trying to recreate the pack they created then yes you need to split hairs… Plans should be made as accurate as possible, and the builder should decide on what tolerances they hold when building, as this is the way it’s done… ---
**Author:** ![Syco54645](https://forum.gbfans.com/user_avatar/forum.gbfans.com/syco54645/32/305_2.png) [@Syco54645](https://forum.gbfans.com/u/Syco54645)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2009, 5:31pm UTC](https://forum.gbfans.com/t/alkaline-s-build-update-11-5-09-weathering-shots/31493/33 "2009-09-08T17:31:07Z")
i would say to try to create an idealized one. ---
**Author:** ![u\_alkaline\_](https://forum.gbfans.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/u/4bbf92/32.png) [@u\_alkaline\_](https://forum.gbfans.com/u/u_alkaline_)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2009, 5:42pm UTC](https://forum.gbfans.com/t/alkaline-s-build-update-11-5-09-weathering-shots/31493/34 "2009-09-08T17:42:26Z")
> [@Exoray](#): > > > [@| alkaline |](#): > > > > Ah, thanks Frank. Man I read some of the thread so far and people are REALLY starting to split hairs when It comes to accuracy. I guarantee the real packs weren’t made to such tight constraints as some people make their own to. > > It’s the difference between trying to create a very accurate replica of the movie pack vs creating a reasonably similar look alike pack… Accuracy is important for one and not so much for the other… As for the original packs they had no frame of reference when building, what they made was what it was, if they decided to do only 5 cosmetic plates is was AOK but when you are trying to replicate what they did you don’t have that flexibility… They had no reason to maintain any accuracy, but when you are trying to recreate the pack they created then yes you need to split hairs… Plans should be made as accurate as possible, and the builder should decide on what tolerances they hold when building, as this is the way it’s done… So if they had no reason to maintain accuracy, How can you be sure what we’re making is accurate? I know the plans are taken from actual packs but if say no 2 packs are identical, how can we be sure which one to use as reference? I guess what I’m saying is there’s no reason to split hairs cause when it boils down to it, no one actually knows. On a related note, how can we be sure the person measuring the pack was accurate. Anyways I guess when building a pack its best to shoot for accuracy rather than precision. ---
**Author:** ![Syco54645](https://forum.gbfans.com/user_avatar/forum.gbfans.com/syco54645/32/305_2.png) [@Syco54645](https://forum.gbfans.com/u/Syco54645)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2009, 5:45pm UTC](https://forum.gbfans.com/t/alkaline-s-build-update-11-5-09-weathering-shots/31493/35 "2009-09-08T17:45:48Z")
> [@| alkaline |](#): > > I guess when building a pack its best to shoot for accuracy rather than precision. and bingo was his name-o! ---
**Author:** ![Exoray](https://forum.gbfans.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/e/d26b3c/32.png) [@Exoray](https://forum.gbfans.com/u/Exoray)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2009, 6:59pm UTC](https://forum.gbfans.com/t/alkaline-s-build-update-11-5-09-weathering-shots/31493/36 "2009-09-08T18:59:03Z")
> [@| alkaline |](#): > > I know the plans are taken from actual packs There is strong speculation that Stefan had some privileged access to a pack but I beleive he has always denied any such access… There are many clear inaccuracies in Stefan’s plans, they are clearly idealized and symmetricalised plans… There are no current public plans out that are straight derived from actual pack measurements at this time… > [@](#): > > but if say no 2 packs are identical, how can we be sure which one to use as reference? To the best of my knowledge one single master shell was made and molded then fiberglass copies were created, so in theory all shells should be nearly identical in most major respects as they came from the same mold, discrepancies will be limited to assembly, greebles and possibly warping or shrinkage in the fiberglass… > [@](#): > > I guess what I’m saying is there’s no reason to split hairs cause when it boils down to it, no one actually knows. To each his own on splitting hairs, as for what people know or don’t know you might be surprised, a lot can be garnished from public and private photographs and other privileged access to the screen used parts and shells… Sadly this type of attitude is why there is no revised more accurate public plans at this time, the people with the information simply no longer want to get nagged and shot in the foot by naysayers… > [@](#): > > On a related note, how can we be sure the person measuring the pack was accurate. You don’t and never will, but as I said at this time there are no public plans out there derived from measurements of a real pack so at this time this is a non issue… > [@](#): > > Anyways I guess when building a pack its best to shoot for accuracy rather than precision. Yep, in the end that is what it boils down to, build it how you want do details that you want it’s your build and you can do whatever you want there is no right or wrong… As I said above tolerance and accuracy should be in the hands of the builder… If you want to replicate every sanding scratch and paint chip go for it (yes people do this) if you want to idealize or change things up go for it… In the end have fun with your build do it how you want and enjoy… ---
**Author:** ![bustermedic](https://forum.gbfans.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/b/b77776/32.png) [@bustermedic](https://forum.gbfans.com/u/bustermedic)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2009, 7:22pm UTC](https://forum.gbfans.com/t/alkaline-s-build-update-11-5-09-weathering-shots/31493/37 "2009-09-08T19:22:23Z")
> [@Exoray](#): > > Yep, in the end that is what it boils down to, build it how you want do details that you want it’s your build and you can do whatever you want there is no right or wrong… As I said above tolerance and accuracy should be in the hands of the builder… If you want to replicate every sanding scratch and paint chip go for it (yes people do this) if you want to idealize or change things up go for it… > > In the end have fun with your build do it how you want and enjoy… Well said! ---
**Author:** ![bradboss12](https://forum.gbfans.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/b/a88e4f/32.png) [@bradboss12](https://forum.gbfans.com/u/bradboss12)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2009, 7:47pm UTC](https://forum.gbfans.com/t/alkaline-s-build-update-11-5-09-weathering-shots/31493/38 "2009-09-08T19:47:09Z")
which is why when people say “movie accurate” it is like a dragon eating it’s own tail. Unless Sony allows someone to take a pack that was in the movie and allows them to take engineering-grade measurements from them, then all there is is best guesses by fans who have put a lot of time into it. If it looks close enough, it is. If Stephen’s plans have innacuracies and his are the most comprehensive, then people should stop with the whole “movie accurate” BS. You can spec the Clippard models, banjo clips, guage of wire, etc, because they exist in the real world. But the packs themselves were fabricated by the Columbia prop department over 25 years ago. If you look at the wealth of photos, talk to prop builders who have done this a ling time, use Stephen’s plans, etc. you are going to get very close to what was in the movie. People who jump down people’s throats about a quater of an inch there or an 1/8" off diameter obviously have too much time on their hands…(and how can they tell from a photo, anyway?) ---
**Author:** ![Exoray](https://forum.gbfans.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/e/d26b3c/32.png) [@Exoray](https://forum.gbfans.com/u/Exoray)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2009, 8:23pm UTC](https://forum.gbfans.com/t/alkaline-s-build-update-11-5-09-weathering-shots/31493/39 "2009-09-08T20:23:55Z")
> [@bradboss12](#): > > Unless Sony allows someone to take a pack that was in the movie and allows them to take engineering-grade measurements from them There was a screen used pack sold by Sony and it was in the hands of this community… It met an unfortunate end by that doesn’t mean information wasn’t gathered and can still be gathered from the still existing parts… There are also Universal shell castings out there that are derived from the same molds as the screen used packs, there are also production made foam guns and parts in this community, and there are people that have and might continue to have unprecedented access to the real packs… Don’t underestimate what kind of data and information can and will be gathered and compiled… > [@](#): > > how can they tell from a photo, anyway?) Quite simple actually in today’s computer world, you can build 3D models and overlay them exactly with hi-resolution photos and see exactly were the 3D model differs and align it perfect, once you get this perfect 3D model made pulling measurements and data off that 3D model is a cake walk… Also in any photo if you have a known reference dimension you can scale other parts of the photo from that, there are techniques that can produce very accurate results… Reverse engineering from a vast library of photos and reference material can and will produce very accurate plans if done carefully… > [@](#): > > obviously have too much time on their hands Nope just a passion for taking things to the next level, everyone waste time on something calling one persons constructive use of time a waste is pretty narrow minded… If it’s not your boat to worry about it then don’t but it never ceases to amaze me that people feel the need to degrade those that want to further the level of accuracy… In the end like I keep saying build it how you want at whatever level of accuracy and detail you desire and have fun doing it… ---
**Author:** ![bradboss12](https://forum.gbfans.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/b/a88e4f/32.png) [@bradboss12](https://forum.gbfans.com/u/bradboss12)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2009, 2:36am UTC](https://forum.gbfans.com/t/alkaline-s-build-update-11-5-09-weathering-shots/31493/40 "2009-09-09T02:36:10Z")
I don’t mean to take away from the data amassed here, I’m just wondering why there isn’t ONE set of plans after all these years and fancy 3D scans of photos and you guys had a pack for pete’s sake!!! Is this art, where people do their own version of the pack, or engineering with 1/10,000 of an inch tolerance CAD software??? Why are their so many discrepancies? If it’s art, then “movie accurate” is meaningless. If it’s engineering, you should have had one good drawing ten years ago. I think it’s great that John is trying his best to make a movie accurate pack. I hope some of the “old-school” folks will help him in his quest. [Previous page](https://forum.gbfans.com/t/alkaline-s-build-update-11-5-09-weathering-shots/31493.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forum.gbfans.com/t/alkaline-s-build-update-11-5-09-weathering-shots/31493.md?page=3)