I read through the first 149 pages last night - there were still a few tidbits of info that filled in blanks on what I already knew.
Zed
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I don’t know how to feel about this book.
I think the title is pretty terrible, frankly. (The first part is just a cheap throw away quote that makes NO SENSE. You’re doing a “making of” book. The parallel dimension quote doesn’t fit in. It’d be like calling it “Symmetrical Book Stacking: How Ghostbusters Slimed us Forever”. There’s a million alternatives that would be better like, oh I don’t know, off the top of my head? “Call it Fate, Call it Luck, Call it Karma: How Ghostbusters Slimed Us Forever” or how about “The Untold History Of Ghostbusters”. Anything but the title as is.
It’s weird to think that a forum discussion on this website is used as a source of information lol.
The book isn’t particularly well written and has no framing devices. It just kinda…is. It’s like a Wikipedia page in book form. There are some interesting tidbits revealed here and there. Nothing earth shattering. I was let down on the Ghostbusters 2 stuff. It seems the author didn’t have access to any of the big names, most of the information in the book is sourced.
What’s good? The author did his research & he doesn’t pull his punches. If you want to walk away from a book loving all the people involved? This isn’t the book for you. Bill Murray & Ivan Reitman come off especially bad at times, which is interesting given the more recent news. The “making of” the Ray Parker Jr theme song for Ghostbusters is probably the best stuff in the book. The author kinda shines in those moments, like he’s putting together pieces of the puzzle. He goes through it all step by step and the book really soars at that part.
I feel like this could’ve been the definitive Ghostbusters book if the author had been given total access. That’s especially true when it comes to the GB3 stuff. If sacrificing some of the more harsh gossipy stuff meant Sony/Ghost Corp co operation & access to archives? It would’ve been worth it. It would’ve been great to get interviews that run concurrently with stuff written at the time the movies were being made.
Ghostbusters still hasn’t been given the proper treatment in “Making of” book form. My dream was J.W Rinzler getting the job but he passed away. Right now this is the best we have. But I don’t think that’s particularly high praise. I can’t help but feel this was a missed opportunity. The right ingredients are all here but it just needed that extra push across the line.
I give the book a B-. It all depends on how deep your knowledge base is. If you’ve read it all and seen it all there’s still some stuff you’ll learn.
^^Nailed it. For a more casual fan it’s a good read, but for us it’s mostly nothing we didn’t know already.
I just want to ask. What’s the etiquette on digging into the nitty gritty on this book? Some of you haven’t read it & I’m dying to talk about something very specific yet I don’t want to spoil anyones reading experience. So what’s the deal? Is it free reign? Should I post a specific thread or can we talk about it here?
^^ I second this question.
I’d say one week from the release date is enough of a courtesy for others. If one can’t read the whole book by then, avoid this thread until you’re done. Come November 8, talk about the book on this thread to your heart’s content.
I’ve been sitting on it for nearly two decades, dying to discuss with fellow fans. What’s another day?
I really enjoyed the hell out of the book. I was privy to a lot of Greene’s research, and still learned stuff on my first read.
The production of GB and GB2 is a crazy niche thing to research and be well-read in. History books are repetitive. My merits on judging new BTS content for GB stems heavily from what new stuff is brought to light. ANY expansion on what we know is welcomed with loving open arms.
The Ultimate Visual History had a handful of new stories and visuals. Detail on Aykroyd’s pitch flightsuit was my fav. The Eaglemoss Inside Story compilation book less so, but brought some previously unseen Gary Montalbano GB2 concept art to light. Cleanin’ Up the Town had a lot of new stories and visuals from the production, many stemming straight from my flat file.
I know I sound like a broken record, but these films are massive creative commercial collaborations. There’s a metric ton of material we haven’t seen. Unit photos, art, scripts, memos— all sorts of things. We’re never getting a 2,000 page tome with everything, but we will continue to see a steady stream of new stuff surfacing for years to come. Auctions, crew members, collectors, people digging out old boxes from decades past, estate sales, Burbank flea markets, perhaps even new material from Ghost Corps!
I find it exciting we don’t know everything. Then again, I always liked waiting until Christmas morning to find out what Santa brought rather than sneaking around parental closets. If everything was dolled out to us in one fell swoop, it would be an entry on Wikipedia by nightfall and diced up into social media graphics. I consider this an on-going hobby of interest and collecting, not to be concluded any time soon.
James Greene Jr did his job really, really well with the book. He brought some crazy information to light that will spur a lot of new discussion. A Convenient Parallel Dimension is a solid read that will bring any casual/new fan up to speed, plus give ■■■■■■■■ nuts like us plenty to chew on. Some will say it makes Murray and Reitman look bad, but I saw plenty of charming stories on them, as well. The world isn’t black and white, neither are people. Especially stressed sensitive/weirdo creative types that have been at the pinnacle of their industry for decades. Nuanced souls living their life, navigating fame, making industrial entertainment on a global scale. James painted a great picture of the movie biz and the people behind it. Like Afterlife showed us, friendships don’t always go as smoothly into old age as one would hope. Making cinema doesn’t always go as smoothly and fun as one would hope. With A Convenient Parallel Dimension, get a fun, well-researched peek behind the curtain.
I saw your name among the “acknowledgments” and even tho I’m very very mixed on the book(I had too high expectations on the some things. And some of it is probably because, again, I have a vision for a GB book and it looks like something the great J.W Rinzler would make, and everytime a GB book comes out, part of me feels disappointment that Sony just doesn’t give it a shit enough to give it shot), I’m glad this fandom has a fan like you out there. You’ve done more behind the scenes with these sorts of endeavours than probably anybody. Add in names like Paul Rudoff & Alex Newborn(with his 1989 YouTube videos of everytime Ghostbusters 2 was mentioned! What a fan! I love it!). So a huge thank you. Without fans like you we wouldn’t get books like these or documentaries like Cleaning Up the Town Parts 1 and 2.
Ok. Let’s dig into this.
Where to start?
Ok. First thing first. The book says Judd Apatow signed on to produce GB3 in 2009 and then never mentions it again. Where did that come from? Was it a misprint?
Ok. Then there’s the Harold Ramis tape. Apparently there’s a 20 minute rant Harold went on during the making of the video game about Bill Murray being an ■■■■■■■ & it was all caught on tape. Vivendi wanted to leak it for publicity but didn’t. Where the hell is that tape now? I’d LOVE to hear it.
My favourite bit in the whole book tho? Dan Aykroyd and Harold Ramis personally calling the wife of the maker of the game to tell her they wouldn’t let Activision fire him after the games originally maker was bought. Over and over again the book just confirms that Harold & Dan are exactly the type of people we think they are.
Unfortunately the same is true of Bill Murray. This book is scathing towards him.
The book also turns VERY political randomly and it’s super off putting, even to someone like me who generally agrees with the politics. It’s odd how for most of the book the author isn’t taking a position on things. Then suddenly when GB16 rolls around…holy shit. He unloads with both barrels. A lot of ink is wasted on the sexism and the trolls and Donald Trump.
And there is way too much Non Ghostbusters stuff in the book. I get that some background is required but the book talks a lot about the Ghostbusters cast and their side projects a little too much. We get a whole COVID 19 refresher that really isn’t needed at all. It goes on. And on. And on. I mean…ok. We get it. There was a pandemic and it sucked. Why are you talking about the Republican Party response to the pandemic in a Ghostbusters book? A few sentences would’ve done the trick. Not pages.
The book offers no answer to the Slimer GB2 ending. It is brought up and examined. That whole section is kinda funny. Why? This forum is used as a source. The author mentions the city of Calgary maybe getting a different cut of GB2. I was like…umm…what? You click the source notation and..it’s a GBfans forum page lol(I got this book digitally). How weird is that? Why would the city of Calgary of all places get a different cut of GB2? Lol. It’s ridiculous.
In early 2008, there was a rumor Apatow was a producer. I think this stemmed from his past collaboration(s) with Lee Eisenberg and Greg Stupnitsky like on Year One. And supposedly there was a Production Weekly listing that had Apatow as a producer. By spring 2009, even the head of Sony was debunking Apatow’s involvement. It was general concluded the production listing was faked.
Did I miss the part where the book mentions those details? I just remember it saying “In 2009 Apatow has signed on as Producer” or something to that effect and then never mentioned why Judd left the production or what the deal is. If I missed that bit then that’s my bad.
Nope, the book does not mention those details. It indeed only mentioned that one line. The truth, so far, is Apatow was never involved on Ghostbusters III and that was a mistake in the book unless Greene has a new source to refute the head of Sony and neglected to include it in the book.
So what did you think of the book overall? What grade or number out of 10 would you give it?
I really would’ve liked more contemporary interviews to go along with the book. Dennis Murren? Richard Edlund? The book says so little about them.
I have to say some of the GB3 stuff sounded awful. Battling a giant baby? It was also interesting reading a couple people that worked on GB16 ■■■■■■■■ on the finished film. You don’t see that everyday.
Ah well, since I admin at the GB Wiki, I don’t know how objective I can be when it comes to these GB history books. I’m mixed on it. I’d give it a 6 or 7. There wasn’t anything mindblowing but Greene mined a lot of new tidbits along the way and gives a bit more structure to some things like the history of GBIII.
However, it got a bit imbalanced with the portrayal of Bill and Ivan like revealing/implying Bill blew off the TVG crew in South Carolina to stalk his soon-to-be ex-wife or anecdotes about Ivan being a jerk on the set. But that stuff I don’t really care about, the making of the movies do. All that backstory padded the book between the big chapters but I guess he or the publisher felt there had to be context for the uninitiated.
Annoyed but not shocked the book glazed over the cartoons or the comics. They tend to get the short shrift in these kind of books. Was perplexed why there wasn’t anything new about Answer The Call or Afterlife. ATC drifted into a commentary spiel on the zeitgeist in 2016. Was hoping for a lot of discussion about early drafts of ATC.
I’m intrigued about Chevy Chase. When Enriquez says he was brought in, he was asked to board a scene of “in which a ghost seduces Chase.” That was June 1983. Were they considering Chase for Ray or Peter? Either way that’s kinda shocking. I thought Dan always had himself as Ray and Bill was pretty much set as Peter OR did they consider Chevy as a back up? But that was classy of Donna Dixon to turn down the offer for Dana. Intriguing Michael McKean auditioned for Louis between Candy and Moranis. Or Carlisle denies she turned down Gozer. Or WOW! The bums Dan and Bill played were briefly recast with an actor who later become one of the cops and ROBERT ENGLUND!
It was intriguing to learn Bill brought in Elaine May to consult on the GBII script. Would have loved to learn more about that. Or man, they wanted Dustin Hoffman for the character that became Janosz. Or Bill’s fight in the courtroom set? Geez. Was bummed but it made sense Elmer Bernstein passed on GB2 because he didn’t want to be typecasted.
Was neat to learn some of the EGB were named after people or how they got approval to use the GB song down to the wire.
TVG, some interesting bits like they wanted to use Janosz or they considered Louis as the 5th GB. Thought of writing Peter off as being in LA starting up a new franchise and they even were going to use Vince Vaughn as a stand-in to voice Peter.
I’m curious how involved Ghost Corps/Sony was involved with the making of this book. It didn’t seem like they were.
Yeah, that was a surprise there wasn’t much new from Boss or ILM. But the Bueno docs fill that gap and I presume Too Hot To Handle will have a lot of new content from ILM crew interviews.
Yeah, the baby I agree with Sony balking at. lol. It was cool learning more about the various GBIII stories like the part of Ray and Egon’s mentor, the ways they were considering on benching Peter from the story, how Peter was killed off, more about the new GBs and who they were considering to cast. But it still feels like there are a ton of drafts that are still unrevealed to us.
Yeah I wonder where that footage is of the guy who played Freddy Kreuger playing the ■■■. Or Gilbert Gottfried playing the dude who causes spontaneous combustion in the GB2 script. Oddly enough I could never imagined the right actor in the role of the business man but I gotta say, Gilbert is kinda perfect casting. That voice of his? Lol. I was always under the impression that scene never filmed.
Yeah the Elaine May thing is wild. Also interesting to note is, this isnt given as the reason but I’ve always wondered why on GB2’s writing credit Harold’s name came first. The book mentions he wrote on his own for a stretch while Dan was filming a movie. I think that might be why. That stuff isn’t arbitrary so I’ve always wondered, did Harold’s agent fight for that or did Harold himself? The first movie has Dan’s name first and Harold name underneath(and rightly so since Dan wrote the first draft and originated the idea). This time on GB2 the names are side by side & like I mention Harold’s name is first even tho we know Dan wrote the first draft this time too. Something changed somewhere tho because on an early trailer for GB2 Dan’s name comes first. Those little things always interest me, ya know?
Another interesting tidbit was that the first audience to see a GB in a test screening boo’d. I had never heard that before. I had heard that the premiere was a disaster tho. But I remember reading that the first test screening was this big hit. Turns out they boo’d at the incomplete FX.
Yeah some of the drama and gossip stuff is weird. Like…why dedicate ink to Debra Winger’s filming experience with Ivan Reitman on Legal Eagles? So odd. What is that doing in a Ghostbusters book? It has no forbearance on anything.
Yeah the book kinda changes gears when it hits the GB16 stuff. The suggestion that Sony intentionally sabotaged the press screening kinda came out of nowhere. Like…why in gods name would they do that?
I do want to see that Mounty Movie with Dan & Bill that is brought up over and over. What was is called? I just remember “North” was in the title. Dan plays a Canadian Mountie, Bill plays an Alaskan state trooper & a third actor was to play the other part. Was it John Candy?
Also…don’t you want to know why Dan Aykroyd got John Carpenter fired from a movie? That seems so unlike him. I wonder if that’s what really happened or if he was used as a scape goat.
Yeah. I was looking at the wording on that passage. I don’t think it confirms it was filmed. It says the sequence was cut. According to Kurt Fuller, Gilbert was cast. Idk if it was filmed but then again, we just got an alternate World of the Psychic scene in the recent collection Blu-ray. It’s possible.
Totally. I like to think Dan wanted to give first billing to Harold because he thought Harold did more work but Harold was too humble and insisted first billing go to Dan.
That was surprising. I guess it was the Library ghost scene they booed if they were cheering by the time Dana looks at her fridge.
Agreed.
On page 222? Ha ha, yeah, when I read that I thought maybe whoever was in charge of that press screening must have went on to work on Wizard World’s GB Day event.
I didn’t catch the title but I believe Candy was to play a prisoner that was on the run. That would have been a really fun movie.
I was under the impression it was because Dan wanted to change the ending into a car chase and Carpenter refused.
Hey folks, it’s me, James Greene, Jr. I’m really appreciating all the feedback! Okay, maybe I’m reading some of this stuff through webbed fingers, but honesty is the best policy. Thank you!
Just thought I could clear up a few things. Sony and Ghost Corps weren’t involved with the book at all. They had an interest in getting involved early on, but they made it clear that in order to obtain their license I’d have to give them editorial control. Meaning they would have final say about what went in the book. My publisher and I agreed that was too big of a gamble.
I tried getting an interview with practically every person mentioned in the book. I often sent multiple requests. This includes not just the major players but also Gilbert Gottfried, Robert Englund, and Judd Apatow (speaking of which, I will correct the Apatow error in future editions, thank you for catching it). As is often the case in this line of work, sometimes people agreed to speak with me and then they changed their mind. Once or twice this change of heart was revealed during the interview.
I wanted to tell not just the story of Ghostbusters but the stories of the creatives at the heart of it so maybe you could get a better idea of who they are / were as people. You know, what you’ve done informs what you do. That’s why I went a little long on “Columbus of Sex,” “Legal Eagles,” etc. This book was also about placing the franchise in a cultural context, so I felt I couldn’t avoid really getting into the political or politicized events that surrounded “Answer The Call” and “Afterlife.” Those two movies were touched by social issues in a way the original two weren’t. And of course, all news / writing is biased.
Only you can judge how successful I was with any of this (and I know that you are, LOL). I can tell you I’ve never worked harder on anything in my life and I’m glad it’s finally out there being read. So again, thank you!
P.S. I’ve written three books and coming up with a title is always the hardest part!
Hey man. We(me especially) can be harsh but at the end of the day? You put yourself out there and added something to the world. That takes guts and my few gripes notwithstanding you acquitted yourself well. You can tell you come to this as fan & for a lot of authors that make these books, it’s a job and a paycheque. For you it seemed a passion.
Thanks for writing the book & adding some new pieces to the puzzle that is The Making of Ghostbusters.
Thanks, Richardless. Really appreciate those words.