The Future.....

Ghostbusters Discussion Ghostbusters: Frozen Empire (2024)
1

Haven’t seen the movie yet, but I’m already wondering where they could go from here.

The Ghostbusters having to restart the business has been done to death.

The Ghostbusters being an active reality doesn’t offer so much in terms of creativity. They bust ghosts, then there is a greater threat that have to be stopped.

Maybe they should pull an “Avengers Infinity War”? Have the busters loose the Great Battle and that turns NY (and the world) in a post apocalyptic land. It take some years to figure out how to restore things to normalcy.

So, the ones who saw the movie have some suggestions / desires?

2

Well, based on the box office, I think it’s safe to say that whatever it is will not be an Avengers-style thing, because they’re going to have to do a lateral move in the budget or tighten things up and go back to the $75m range.

If I’m going off of Frozen Empire, the only thing that immediately comes to mind is following the thread from this one about what it’s like to be a ghost. Phoebe’s experience could lead to some sort of new discovery about ghosts that the Ghostbusters follow up on.

3

I’d love to see some actual ghostbusting in a sequel. The opening chase was pretty great, even if it was essentially recreating the Muncher chase from Afterlife.

If they’re taking inspiration from RGB, there’s plenty of episodes that start with the crew being bored with the day to day drudgery. It works in RGB, of course, because we’ve seen it there. So show some of that.

I also don’t think every film needs a world-ending threat. Like, high stakes drama does not need to equal all the stakes all the time.

Let’s see some ghostbusting. Let’s see some actual paranormal investigation (not just exposition dumps from Aykroyd and Oswalt). Let’s see what this crew can do when we give them some actual screen time.

Pick a character arc for each of our main four and follow them through! Maybe do a second pass of the script! I know, I’m talking crazy.

4

[quote=BrianReilly post_id=4995247 time=1711307971 user_id=17403]Let’s see some ghostbusting. Let’s see some actual paranormal investigation (not just exposition dumps from Aykroyd and Oswalt). Let’s see what this crew can do when we give them some actual screen time.

Pick a character arc for each of our main four and follow them through! Maybe do a second pass of the script! I know, I’m talking crazy.
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This too. The original Ghostbusters establishes the supernatural threat as the plot, but if the plot is the character dynamics, then they can just bust a bunch of average ghosts without a major threat and the movie could not only break new ground, it would also be a nice way for it to be a bit cheaper. I don’t know if audiences would embrace it, especially if it were in any way sentimental (and it feels hard to come up with a meaningful character arc to devote a whole movie to that isn’t more dramatic than comedic, even if they execute it in the most comedic way possible), but I also think that if there’s another Spengler clan Ghostbusters movie, it will probably be viewed as a finale to a trilogy that started with Afterlife.

5

Honestly, I’d love to see EXPANSION be a thing. I’m not saying every movie be a new team, but I think it’d be awesome if there was an anthology mini-series following a couple different teams on smaller cases in other cities/countries. A haunted manor in the UK one week, figuring out why the toilets keep screaming in a hotel in Chicago. Something mauling moose in Canada. They don’t even need to connect story-wise. Have the intro narrated by Ray or Winston with a cut-away cameo to Ray in an episode or two to help look up local lore or something to have those strings of connection to the originals.

That all said, I feel the MOVIES should stick with the New York crew

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WITHIN THE MOVIE

More busting. Really need to bring back the montages. Get to see quick one-and-dones, more ghost + tech, locations etc. Breathing room for the audience.

I’m fine with bureaucracy but I want less… one dimensional bureaucracy and get a bit more creative. We need less of the structure of I’m gonna shut you down–scenes–you’re shut down–ghost outbreak–the world saved. IDW got creative with Peck, Hardemeyer, and other bureaucracy stuff.

STORY-WISE

On one hand, they could easily do case-of-week with high stakes. e.g. Investigate a haunted house call, they’re trapped in the house, discover there’s more to the entity than it sees/misclassified the threat level. Haunting of Heck House, Home is where the Horror is, and the like tackled great takes on this premise. Or dealing with a bogeyman type of entity. A mystery recalling more investigation/detective work.

On the other hand, expansion sounds like a given and they’ve been hinting at going international. Especially since it’s likely to be another time skip. Given every city has Peck-type, straight up starting a franchise might not be viable. So I think the way to go is Winston being sneaky with Zeddemore Industries installing Paranormal Research Centers in potential cities and the Engineer Corps runs an assessment (scale of lore in the city, P.K.E. levels, amount of hauntings) then files a report with the home office and Winston makes the call to run the legal gambit in installing a Ghostbusters franchise and dealing with the local bureaucracy. Over x years, franchises are established across the USA as Winston moves westward. Then eventually the same idea internationally in other countries.

I think they need to figure out a way to leverage canon tie-in content. So far, their first move was a tie-in comic exploring the gap between Afterlife and Frozen Empire. I would really want to see a comic covering post-GB2 up to Egon leaving and closing down the business. They have to be/need to eventually dip their toes into live action series e.g. Ghostbusters franchises, exploring the past like with a Tobin show or a show about a certain group introduced in Frozen Empire, a show starring the Engineer Corps, etc.

7

To avoid spoilers, Frozen Empire was a standalone story with a bloated cast and a short time. These are all elements which result in the average non-devoted to IP theater viewer from enjoying or paying for tickets.

While Frozen Empire will likely get away with fans being a Saturday Morning Cartoons Ex-Machina plot, it’s not something which burns up the box office numbers. Whatever film follows Frozen Empire needs to do just that. It’s vital that any future installments appeal to more than Ghostbusters fans. On the plus note, after two back-to-back “Passing the Torch” films. We are ready for films with a smaller more streamline cast AND plot.

After four films, the franchise needs a End Game. We need a series of 3+ films which tell the tale of one HUGE bad guy. With multiple films of build up all to justify seeing the new story to its conclusion. I honestly believe, if Ghostbusters is not approached like Spider-Verse aka the team at Ghost Corps take the time to hammer out the story shell of the next several films… we likely will see Ghostbusters leave the bring screen.

Film Critics want more '84 one-off comedy focused movies, fans of Ghostbusters want story, so, the only way to make them happy. Is shift their view one what Ghostbusters is by not being another stand-alone film.

8

Based on UncannyGirl’s post and some of the other discussions in here since the initial post, I’d hope that the next Ghostbusters film, should we get another one based on Frozen Empire's success, should be a conclusion to the Phoebe Spengler story. In particular, the movie should be about Phoebe and Callie becoming closer and forming a complete family unit with Gary and Trevor, with Phoebe learning to connect to people who are alive a bit better than various ghosts. Not only would that give poor Carrie Coon something to do in one of these movies, it would also be a story that has fully to do with the new characters, and it could eschew the world-ending threat stuff for one movie.

At that point I think it would be easier to move on (even if we see Phoebe and the new cast again somewhere else) to a new take that takes another stab at bringing in new fans. Although who knows, if they conclude the Spengler family arc, it would not be surprising if Sony takes a bit of a break.

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[quote=UncannyGirl post_id=4995364 time=1711383318 user_id=81504]Film Critics want more '84 one-off comedy focused movies
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I think film critics just want generally good movies.

The average Ghostbusters fan might love Afterlife and Frozen Empire, but they are just not that well put together movies, and they feel very much like product rather than art. Not that all films should or do aspire to being “art,” but it’s obvious when a movie “aspires” to be a successful product.

It’s similar to what has happened to Marvel’s films. They started a new storyline in a direction that audiences and critics didn’t care for, but the product strategy requires they stay the course until the films in production are completed and they can pivot. And the reworking of a bunch of the films and tv series in the meantime makes the edits and cuts super obvious and as a result they feel even more like soulless products.

There is also this weird attitude that is super prevalent in GB fandom that the critics have it out to get Ghostbusters movies by expecting a consistent plot structure and complete character arcs and actual jokes instead of repeating lines from previous films and treating that like a joke. What do we hope to gain by demanding less?

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[quote=BrianReilly post_id=4995405 time=1711398179 user_id=17403]I think film critics just want generally good movies.

The average Ghostbusters fan might love Afterlife and Frozen Empire, but they are just not that well put together movies, and they feel very much like product rather than art.

There is also this weird attitude that is super prevalent in GB fandom that the critics have it out to get Ghostbusters movies by expecting a consistent plot structure and complete character arcs and actual jokes instead of repeating lines from previous films and treating that like a joke. What do we hope to gain by demanding less?
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I don’t necessarily agree that they feel like product, in the sense that I do believe that Jason and Gil are sincere in their desire to deliver a funny, fun movie that adds to the story they’re telling with these new characters, but I do agree that it’s kind of shocking how sloppy these new movies are, even though I like them (and that includes the 2016 movie, which I defend but have always wanted to do a fan edit for to put back in story elements that were deleted for mediocre riffing). I know that these are expensive, big-budget projects but it’s kind of crazy how easy it is to poke holes in the plot construction and overall rigor with which the stories were constructed.

For example, we have the whole debate going on about whether or not Winston has hidden the Paranormal Research Lab from the Spenglers for two years. On top of there being no explanation as to why he would do this, I also have to admit I straight-up had no idea how much time had passed between Afterlife and Frozen Empire going strictly off the new movie. As I suggested when I wrote my lengthy review post, the movie would have really benefitted from a introductory scene after the prologue showing them bringing in boxes and unpacking stuff, only to get a surprise call and Gary encouraging them all to go see what’s up. We’d establish that no matter what amount of time had passed between the two films, the Spenglers were still getting their bearings, they were just starting to try and take over the mantle, why Peck hadn’t previously clocked their return, why Winston was only just now telling them about the lab…

Can I overlook this and just enjoy the movie? Sure. But as one can see from the list of things this would provide an explanation for, this one plot point – the very first thing we see the new characters doing in this movie – is already pretty muddled. I also think Afterlife has twice as many of these problems, and what’s especially frustrating about all of this is that you can tell all three of the 21st century Ghostbusters movies had the pieces in there, somewhere. Traces of what they might have thought they wanted to do with the characters and their arcs remain. So close, yet so far.

11

Wherever they go i hope they take those stupid shields off the wand barrel, why cover up the main moving part on it? It makes the pop mech utterly pointless.

And yes more actual ghost busting would be nice, rather than one at the start (which was basically the muncher bust recycled in new york with a new prop for hasbro to make toys from) then 1 at the end. For a movie called ‘Ghostbusters’ you would think this wouldn’t even have to be brought up, yet quite a few reviews and fans online have mentioned the distinct lack of actual busting of ghosts…

12

Please, no montage.

1 & 2 did it to death.

I think that’s why there wasn’t one in the new film (the montage repeat was something critics panned about 2)

I’m sure the creative team have ideas of their own.

I just hope they consider pulling a Marvel and pulling from source material like the cartoons and comics.

Ideas that would be great for films, within a reasonable budget:

Sandman, Boogieman, Grundel, Hob Anagarak, Tempest, Akira, Fear Itself, The Power Munchers, Jeremy & DiTillio, Gu Mo the Bone Demon, Erland Vinter, Illdunas just to name a few.

Whole stories that have potential:

GB International

Ray’s Duke of Duncal ep

The Thing in Mrs Favishom’s Attic

The Sheers of Life

XGB’s episode about Ed Corillian

The Ghostsmashers IDW

XGB the ghostmakers

There’s a ton that could make for good cinema if expanded upon.

13

If they stay in New York, I’d like for ALL the city to be under the villain siege, so the various busters have to split up and work separately from various locations.

At the beginning of the movie they are on what they believe is a routine bust. This time, the ghost is smarter: he defeat them and claim New York as his reign and the city slowly becomes a nightmare (There was a great earthquake. The sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, the whole moon turned blood red).

We see a caption “Six months later”.

The busters are still active but now they simply help people who have to deal with pesky spirits and are trying to figure out how to defeat the Big Bad. When they have the right idea, they starts organizing a rebellion, with civilians who enlists to help.

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14

The REAL future? Or my IDEAL future? Those are two very different things lol

I’ll go with what they should do. If they were smart.

If they make another live action film, which is looking doubtful, get rid of the Spengler family. Bring back the irreverent tone. Make it an out and out comedy.

The movie is about Ray Stanz. Sort of. It’s also a going into business movie. Sort off.

Ray moves out west. Or to Chicago. Winston wants to open up a franchise out there and so he sends Ray to represent Ghostbusters INC at the “West Coast Franchise Expo”. Ray’s job is to approve and help set up the next GB franchise. It’s not going well. He’s laughed at. No one wants to buy.

We also are crossing cutting with another story of some down on their luck friends (One is a recently fired scientist at a local community college and the others are his two best friends who run a dead end private Eye business)

These 3 friends just so happen to have bonded over growing up in New York in the 80s. Two of them witnessed a walking Marshmallow Man. The other saw the Statue of Liberty Walking. But no one ever believed them. The scientist dedicated his life to proving it was real. Only to discover…for some reason, Ghost do not photograph(without special equipment). Anyways, the friends decide to pool their money and buy some Restaurant at the local franchise Expo. But hidden in some dank corner is Ray’s GB franchise booth. The one friend(the scientist) “Jack and the beanstalks” them, comes back announcing instead of buying the lucrative restaurant franchise, he purchased Ghostbusters!

Anyways, paranormal hilarity ensues. We go against the nostalgia thing a bit. A Ecto 1A roars to life on the first big bust, pulls out of the west coast GBHQ, and sputters, stalls. The GB’s get out and it collapses into a heap up rusted metal. One of the characters says “Oh I’m sure we can buff that right out” and the heap of Ecto 1A sets fire. They arrive to their first case in an Uber.

The first bust is against an entity that uses sonic forces, and it blows and tears the clothing right off people ala the video game character Kirby. So the group busts their first ghost half naked.

Who are the new GB’s? Ryan Gosling. Kevin Hart. Stephen Merchant. And 4th member gets added who’s played by Emma Stone or Dakota Johnson. Truly I’d like Helena Bonham Carter though.

Anyways. That’s the future. Or rather, what the future should be. In my humble opinion.

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15

I’m done with the focus being on Phoebe. The first two films weren’t about a specific character.

I’d like to see “Ghostbusters International” be about Callie, Gary, Nadeem, and Lars going to Old Europe to investigate Houska Castle. Phoebe, Trevor, Ray, and Winston can stay behind in NYC to work in the paranormal research center and provide remote support. I can already hear Stantz giving this new team a warning before they depart:

“Hidden by thick forestry, Houska Castle in Czechia is shrouded in nightmarish myth and occultist legend. It was built atop a cliff in Prague’s countryside, mysteriously isolated from all trade routes. It had no source of water or fortification. Some say it wasn’t built to keep evil from entering — but to prevent it from spilling out.”

The prologue writes itself. You have some guide telling tourists “Houska Castle, and most specifically the chapel, was constructed over a large hole in the ground that is a gateway to Hell, which is allegedly so deep that no one could see the bottom of it. Animal-human hybrids were reported to have crawled out of it, and dark-winged, otherworldly creatures flew in its vicinity. Legend has it that when construction began in the castle, all of the prisoners that were sentenced to death were offered a pardon if they consented to be lowered by rope into the hole, and report back on what they saw. When the first person was lowered, he began screaming after a few seconds, and when pulled back to the surface, he looked as if he had aged 30 years. He had grown wrinkles and his hair had turned white.” You could then either do a flashback depicting someone being lowered into the pit and seeing a horrific creature, or have a tourist lag behind the group and encounter something horrific. Then cut to the logo and cue the theme song.

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16

I definitely don’t want to abandon Phoebe or the Spengler clan. Phoebe, to me, is the #1 thing these new movies have going for them and the more focus on her, the better. I liked that Frozen Empire started to develop the idea that Ray is turning into an uncle of sorts to her, and there should be some more of that in the next one, if it happens.

That said, I do still feel like it would also be fine to leave those characters behind if they make one more movie, because then Afterlife, Frozen Empire, and a third film would form a trilogy arc for those characters. At that point, you could go in any number of directions while allowing those characters to still be out there somewhere.

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Phoebe is the best of the new characters and assuming they’d time jump she won’t be a minor and can do more. She has to remain. Getting rid of any of the family (including Grooberson cause he’s clearly part of the family now) would be an awful step backwards and wouldn’t make any sense. A movie focusing on another team somewhere else is cool but the NY team is established as the Spenglers.

I like the rival team and traveling ideas. I’d probably go with either of those. They’re different enough from just introducing another monster.

Ghostbusters Inc. is something I’ve always wanted but I’d like to see the current team do something together for an entire adventure first.

Probably in the minority with this but Ray and Winston are the only legacy characters that should return onscreen. Winston because he runs the business and Ray because he loves it. I’m glad Ray had a legitimate part in FE because I know Dan Aykroyd wanted to do another GB probably more than any of the other original cast members.

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[quote=WCat2000 post_id=4995594 time=1711560856 user_id=59623]Probably in the minority with this but Ray and Winston are the only legacy characters that should return onscreen. Winston because he runs the business and Ray because he loves it. I’m glad Ray had a legitimate part in FE because I know Dan Aykroyd wanted to do another GB probably more than any of the other original cast members.
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I’m fine with having Bill back as long as he’s willing to do it. I would find it odd to have two out of three living Ghostbusters. I’d be quicker to let Janine go, and I don’t necessarily need Peck to continue antagonizing them beyond his appearance in this movie.

19

I’m fine with having Bill back as long as he’s willing to do it. I would find it odd to have two out of three living Ghostbusters. I’d be quicker to let Janine go, and I don’t necessarily need Peck to continue antagonizing them beyond his appearance in this movie.

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I said only Ray and Winston because the others aren’t doing much. Not singling out Bill Murray. Anyone from the originals. They can be around but any storyline is gonna have new people they need to focus on. Especially if it’s a rival team plot.

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WINSTON 4 MAYOR