In my personal opinion, the best Neutrona Beam shot in any Ghostbuster movie is the wide long shot of the small as ants GB’s shooting down at Mr Stay Puft. The beams look pretty flawless in that entire section of the movie.
It’s interesting to me that in Afterlife they were able to replicate the purple energy beams that we see get released after the ECU explosion in the first film but they couldn’t get the Neutrona beams looking quite right.
Don’t get me wrong. They don’t look awful. They are acceptable. They are more consistent. I
But there is just something about the beams in that part of the ‘84 movie that haven’t been surpassed. The thickness, the rubbery nature. To me those shots show the concept of “rubberized light” perfectly.
In CG the beams somehow seem more “clean”. They don’t feel as dangerous or as wild. Does anyone else feel this?
It’s not about “CGI sucks practical effects rule!” (Use the best technique available) but I just genuinely feel the best beam shots are still on the optical compositing side of things. Which is interesting.
Can’t say I agree about the CG proton streams feeling any less dangerous than they did with the optical effects of the '80s films. The movement of the beams, coupled with the explosive destruction of the scenery keep them as dangerous in the 2020s as they were in the 1980s.
That shot you feel is the best has some merit, though the beams themselves are just too much like static lines for my preference… They aren’t the “rubberised light” that you describe, they actually look more like generic rays because they show such little movement along their length… Which to me doesn’t make it the best shot featuring the proton beams.
The best shot in my view is when the guys first open fire at Gozer for the first time, from the 3:22 to the 3:33 marks:
One big thing that I feel stands in the CG Proton steams’ favour is the fact that (the events of Frozen Empire's finale being largely the exception) they appear consistant in appearance from scene to scene, which sadly can’t quite be said for the original movie.
Gotta say, the chonky looking ATC streams would be pretty damn cool if they just had a tiny bit more emphasis on the blue return particles. THAT is the proton stream I want coming out of my wand.
The ATC streams were fine with one major error. The filmmakers decided that it would be cool to do this pseudo 3d effect where the streams and sparks break out into the letterbox. This looks fine in darkness because it blends in to the background but with lights on it looks like someone just copied some action vfx stock assets and pasted them on top.
AY! That’s on the Blu-Ray, not the digital, if I remember. I don’t know if it was meant to be a 3d effect thing, but it’s entirely possible it was meant to be a thing for theaters but not home viewings. One thing I love about the streams though is that spilling “unpropelled” plasma spilling and falling onto the ground where the user is firing. Beautiful.
[quote=The_Y33TER post_id=4997615 time=1715209510 user_id=62467]I don’t know if it was meant to be a 3d effect thing
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It may represent the elements that were 3D in the cinema presentations, but it was a deliberate choice by the team handling the DVDs to include that “out of frame” appearance on certain effects.
It may represent the elements that were 3D in the cinema presentations, but it was a deliberate choice by the team handling the DVDs to include that “out of frame” appearance on certain effects.
[/quote]
It was the same with the Gertrude Altridge ghost and the sliming scene at the mansion.
Considering it was in theaters in 3d and the 3d came with the 4k set, I’ll cut ATC some slack. it’s supposed to be a good 3d Blu-ray. Out of the frame definitely exaggerates the pop out. It’s a cool affect with glasses.
Oops. I wasn’t trying to say my favourite shot specifically featured the rubberized light effect. But that the final sequence, that section of the movie features it. To narrow it down the final crossing the streams features that rubberized light element better than any other. Beautiful stuff.
The part I’m talking about as my favourite shot is my favourite because of the scale, composition and general quality of the FX. It’s a very believable shot and is probably the best in the entire movie. It’s clean. It’s cool. The scale is great. No matte lines. I love it. Best FX shot in the movie. It’s chefs kiss. Either that or the first wide shot of Mr Stay Puft. That effect is so seamless. Again no Matte lines. Perfect scale. Completely believable. He looks tactile.
I do think Afterlife did a decent job of the dangerous portion of the beams with general destruction but there’s just something about those original rotoscoped beams that feels more “oh shit this is crazy dangerous”. You know what I think it is? I think it might be how they talk about them and how they are framed. Egon worries about his face burning off. The massive explosion at the end. How they talk to each other. The yelling and the wind. They seem scared of the beams, How Ray is “You got em you got em now don’t cross the streams”. Plus The destruction in the hotel. And they just look WILD. Ivan Reitman kind of created a general feel, an aesthetic when those things are used. There’s an excitement and electricity to those sequences that I’ve only seen in one movie since GB2 and that’s the Muncher bust.
Even in GB2 we get them talking about will they still work? We get that great wind. The chairs popping. The tension is there which just adds to it all. It’s the whole package. I feel those movies just handled it better where as, the Muncher bust not withstanding, the newer films treat is in an old hat kind of way.
In ATC the beams are treated as a joke and nothing to worry about. Melissa Mcarthy riding it like a bull, the shot of the limp stream. At no point do I feel they are worried about these things. They shoot the mooglie in the crotch.
The worst beams from a look POV are the ATC beams. They are too fat. They don’t have the life to them the other ones have. Granted I dislike almost every creative choice from a design stand point in that movie. The packs? The suits? The car? None of it’s my cup of tea. And I’m not against the idea of changing the packs either. Like lightsabers it’s cool if you have different designs but don’t make ‘em worse than the original.
And yeah I agree like I mentioned the cool thing about CG is the beams are more consistent but GB2 also has a consistent look and that’s not CG.
Consistency is a general issue with the FX in the GB84. Slimer looks so damn good when we see him in that close up eating at the food cart. He’s PERFECT. But then he can get a bit janky during some other shots. But that close up? Where he wipes his face? Best he’s ever look in any GB movie. I wish they could’ve kept that level of quality for Slimer. But I get it. The production was nuts.
Don’t get me wrong, it looks great when cropped. I love the particle effects in the ATC streams I think they looked great. But that silly breakout effect was definitely not an accident on the Blu-Ray, its also on the Sky Movies version (satellite television broadcast) as well.
They looked so damn good, didn’t they?? They looked like they had volume, (3d animation vs 2d animation for ya) beautiful stuff, man. that stream looks like it could Anatoli Bugorski the hell out of you.
imo that was pretty cool, it establishes that it’s a different form of proton stream, being a plasma stream instead of just a particle stream. kinda interesting of an idea that if the thrower isn’t given enough plasma the “pressure” is gonna be lower and the stream won’t travel as far.
I personally loved the gear development arc over the course of the movie, it’s an idea that I personally think the mainline movies would work really well with. As opposed to Frozen Empire's sudden “oh shit lets dunk the cyclotron in molten brass, cut down my booster tube and leave off my cyclotron pan” (fun fact, the power cellinjector box was supposed to be open as well, they designed a whole interior but never showed it in the movie D:), there would be a steady upgrade arc, like how we could potentially maybe possibly see some '09 modes in the next movie…
totally get it. streams were super thick in 2016, but honestly I like it. the throwers had higher diameter emitters, so it makes more sense that they’re thicker streams, whereas our OG wands have pretty tight emitter ends.
ay, I agree the movie had quite a few problems, but you gotta admit, that huge exposed synchrotron causes a neuron activation somewhere. (in my case, big spinny reactor make monkey brain happy) the suits… eh. didn’t really like them either, too simple, seems like something you’d see as a “budget Halloween costume” on Pinterest. The car? Pretty mid tier too. I can say I liked some elements (steel tanks), but the roof rack was WAY too simplified.
I don’t remember them saying anything about a difference between plasma/particle stream. I remember them just talking about “more power” and then it shoots straight. But it’s been awhile since I’ve watched the movie.
That’s another thing about ATC that bugs me. In the original film I buy every inch of the pseudo science.
But I don’t buy Melissa McCarthy at all saying those lines. There’s a scene when they test out the equipment in the subway and they find a piece of metal and talk about what it smells like and I don’t buy it. It doesn’t sound natural or second hand. Now when Holtzman says that kind of stuff? I buy it.
That’s where having Ramis and Aykroyd becomes invaluable because no one does pseudo science like those two.
Please keep this topic’s discussion focussed on proton beam visual effects, and not turn it into a wider critique of the 2016 movie. I shouldn’t have to keep saying this.
“I shouldn’t have to keep saying this”. For real. Especially when I wasn’t off topic.
Did you delete someone else’s post or are you referring to mine? If you are referring to mine…it’s on topic.
Allow me to explain:
Unless you are under the impression proton pack beams are real? Are you? Cause I got some bad news Kingpin. It’s pseudo science. What I wrote applies to beams. The piece of metal they smell. Go check what scene that’s in. I even mentioned it! But Here’s a hint. It’s the scene we were talking about! With the limp beam lol
We were talking about the danger of the beams. What did I say in my response? I said it was how they talked about it. What was my complaint about the 2016 movie? I don’t buy the way they talk about the pseudo science! Meaning the proton pack gibberish. I mention the piece of metal they smell because its in that same scene.
So just to confirm. Proton pack beams? They are pseudo science. Why the original movies work well? The pseudo science is believable. 2016=Not.
I was on topic. But now I’ve gone off topic about how I wasn’t really off topic because you went off topic asking people to stay on topic. Oh no I’ve gone cross eyed.
Whether you believe Melissa’s performance was credible or whether Harold and Dan’s writing influence would’ve made things better is irrelevant either to the way the proton beams in the 2016 function, or how dangerous they were, or how they were achieved via the visual effects.
We try to allow a bit of flexibility with some topics, but there is a limit, and I’m not convinced the tangent you went down was justified.
I was on topic. I referenced specifically how the beams feel more dangerous BY THE WAY THE CHARACTERS TALK ABOUT THEM. Do you want me to quote that line? It’s there. Look up to my reply to you.
Whether or not you disagree with that is irrelevant. Pseudo science covers a wide area in these films. The proton packs are pseudo science. The beams are pseudo science
I was talking about how believable the characters can make things feel. For Chris sakes I specifically mention that earlier. How characters react and talk about the effects plays into their quality.
I was on topic. I was talking about what this thread was about. You jumped the gun. A simple “oops my bad. I didn’t realize that’s what this was about” what have sufficed.
You saw the words “another thing” “2016” and took it from there plus got a little rude with the “I shouldnt have to keep saying this”(I mean. You’re a mod. Saying that is exactly what you should be doing—when appropriate).
Here’s how you know you’re wrong. I’ve been off topic many times. You say something. 9/10 you are right. I don’t give a shit. But not this time. I would not be putting up a fight and giving a shit otherwise. But this is about principle. I know I was on topic.
Edit: Here’s the line I’m talking about: “think it might be how they talk about them and how they are framed. Egon worries about his face burning off. The massive explosion at the end. How they talk to each other. The yelling and the wind. They seem scared of the beams, How Ray is “You got em you got em now don’t cross the streams”. Plus The destruction in the hotel. And they just look WILD. Ivan Reitman kind of created a general feel, an aesthetic when those things are used. There’s an excitement and electricity to those sequences that I’ve only seen in one movie since GB2 and that’s the Muncher bust.”
That is interesting. Do Dan, Ivan & Harold add to the believability of the effects by how they talk about them?
I think so.
Are we not allowed to talk about the 2016 movie here? Because there is one element I liked with the so called “limp scene” which was adding the grounding wire collar. That was funny. But I think Rich has a point. The way the pseudoscience or whatever u wanna call it. It adds to what a movie is all about, right?
Suspension of disbelief. That DEFINITELY plays into how an audience receives a movie. Even a movies effects.
bcuz Obviously the 2016 movie has BETTER quality special effects. There’s no “jank”. So why do we buy into the original films more?
I have my own theories. It has to do with how much special effects/CGI is used. 2016 assaults the senses a bit. Too much,. & this plays into the beams & how we view them. I think how each director moves the camera or doesn’t move the camera.
& finally? The actors. It’s true. The actors. In GB2 when they are busting the Scoleri bros, I buy the guys doing a job. They are not really quipping with each other. Venkman is trash talking the ghost. & we see him look distressed at times. All that plays into how the audience looks at it. While those beams are being fired, it’s business.
I think the 2016 beams match the movie. They are bigger, larger than life more pronounced. Brighter. They feel more comedic to me. Less dangerous. But they don’t look unreal.
Richardless, when you started this thread, it was strictly about the visuals of the proton streams in 1984 and 2024. Right?
All Kingpin is saying you went off-topic talking about something other than the visual effects. When you later posted to the effect of ‘another thing that bugged me about the 2016 movie’ is ‘this actor isn’t believable’. You know we still have ongoing issues with people beating the dead horse that is “ATC Sucks” and when you say things like ‘another thing that bugged me about the 2016 movie was this actor’s acting’ - that is a gateway for other people to then take the thread on a further tangent about how the movie was terrible. It’s unfortunate, but we still have to keep a tight leash when ATC comes up. We don’t want to, but we do. That’s why Kingpin responded the way he did.
So what do you want this thread to be about, Richardless? Only about comparing the proton stream visuals like it seemed to be from the start or did you think of some other things and now what to expand the discussion to include exposition from actors in the movies? If you to want to do the latter, that’s fine. It won’t come off as off-topic anymore. We may have to tweak the title of the thread a little.
