Ghostbusters: TOS First impressions...

So, with much anticipation, I picked up my copy of the new IDW Ghostbusters comic today…oh boy. I am pretty let down. I don’t even know where to begin with this thing…so I figured I would jump onto the boards and see what everyone’s first impressions are.

For my part, this comic is flawed all over. The art is sub-par, the equipment isn’t anywhere near as accurate as the 88 Mph Legion comic , and there’s nothing about the dialogue or story that feels like Ghostbusters. (Spoiler warning from here on out, if you haven’t read the comic yet and don’t want anything revealed). The story, or what little we have so far, is flimsy Real Ghostbusters quality nonsense about ghostly Mafia members wanting to take down the boys in gray. This sort of thing is totally fine in RGB, but when you take the more realistic look and style of the movie, you can’t have the ghouls talking to each other like people. Nothing the GB’s say or do shows any character, and there’s no sense of the source material at all. I get the distinct impression that there is little interest on IDW’s end in making this thing reflect the movie. For all the drama and mishandled business, I have to admit, I really liked the 88 Mph comic. I felt they got the characterizations right, and struck the perfect balance between the style and tone of the film, and the slightly lighter humor of the cartoon…HOWEVER, the ghosts in it were just that-ghosts. No talking, no planning, just flying around being menaces. It causes problems for me when they start humanizing the ghosts, and I think that’s why there was always a human “villiain” in the films, either being used by the spooks like Janosz , or just a focal point, like Dana. That way the specters can remain anonymous, thoughtless bad guys, as they should. And 88 Mph actually paid attention to the source material. For instance, in the Legion comic, Peter’s suit legs are never tucked into his suit. In the IDW book, they’re tucked in just like everyone else’s. It’s a minor detail, but it shows a lot of attention when it’s acknowledged.

The same lack of detail is given to the equipment, which 88 Mph also had down pretty well. It’s not terrible by any means, and I know as a ■■■■■■■■ ghosthead I’m more familiar with a proton pack than most, as we all are, but compared to 88 Mph’s comic, it’s lacking. As for the story, there’s barely anything there to judge…The GB’s just kick open a door in the beginning with no explanation as to why they know where these ghosts are…I realize the first issue of Legion didn’t have a huge chunk of plot (which is no surprise, first issues aren’t novels), but there was still a hell of a lot more action, and the characterization was a million times better. And as a final note, the last panel (I’d like to re-iterate my spoiler warning) is the GB’s lying (apparently) dead from multiple gunshot wounds. Now, I’m not squeamish, prudish, or opposed to fake comic violence in any way (as a matter of fact, I can’t wait to get my hands on Dead Space). But this is like, the LAST thing I want to see in a comic. I know, it’s part of the story, I know it’ll work out alright and they’ll be fine, etc..Either way, still not something I’m really into.

So that’s my first impression. I’m interested in hearing what everyone else thinks. I’m not trying to be super critical or harsh here, but I really, REALLy wanted this thing to be good, and I don’t think IDW pulled it off…Let’s hear some opinions!

My friend scoffed at me when I pointed out the tucked in uniform. Nice to see I’m not the only one that noticed it.

It was a decent first issue. As I said in CGC, it’s hard not to compare it to Legion, whose art and coloring I think are a bit superior to this one, but the art was still good. The writing was a little sketchy in places, especially considering Ray’s shock over possession considering he himself was possessed in an event MENTIONED in the book. Also, I had a problem with the end of the issue. I thought it was a bit TOO dark for GB. It just didn’t feel right. But, hey, they got 3 more issues to work out the kinks!

Admittedly, I’m curious to see where this story goes. But I had most of the gripes that you guys had. Anyone pick up the Tokyopop? It’s actually a pretty decent read.

Hello guys,

I normally don’t really hang out on community forums like this one, because I simply don’t have the time for it anymore. But I am a big Ghostbusters fan and watch the news closely. I just read the new comic book and I totally agree with Dr. Spengs… I was pretty disappointed. It just didn’t felt like the Ghostbusters I knew and love. The ghosts talking to each other as if they were still alive just seems stupid to me. The great thing about Ghostbusters was the fact that it felt real and that the paranormal occurrences still seemed plausible. Of course I’m getting the rest of the series but If IDW wants to continue with the series after “The Other Side”, they sure need someone who can explain Ghostbusters to them. Maybe we should all send some emails to [email protected] and tell them how we (the fans) think about the comic.

I also had several issues with the comic. And I too wanted to like it, but it just didn’t feel “right”. My comments/review is at http://mypage.iu.edu/~tsilver/ghostbusters

We’ve basically already been discussing this over here:

So far as all these “details” that are missing - it’s a comic book. I also, jokingly, mentioned the tucked in uniform. To be honest, we’re lucky someone gave it another shot. Everyone talks about how great the 88MPH version was. It was a cool comic. Yes, it had great details. By the way, where are they now..?

IDW has picked this thing up, and they are writing a story they saw fit to write. Not everyone will agree on everything about the story, the comic, etc. But, it’s an interesting twist that they’re going for, and it should be interesting to see where it goes.

If it’s the last thing you wanted to see, maybe you shouldn’t have bought it.. It was pretty straight forward where this thing was going. Or did you not understand “The Other Side,” or catch the cover shot of them full of bullet holes, standing in front of a tombstone marked “Ghost Busters”?

Now - I’m sure there will be some personal attacks on this point of view, so fire away. Just remember - we’re all stating our opinions here, and other than something so blind as to be mad at seeing the team dead (considering all the information that was available before the release), I have no problems with anyone else’s opinions.

I enjoyed it for what it was. As far as the ghosts talking I didn’t have too much of a problem with it. I mean it would be quite boring if the ghosts just said “raaaaaargggggghh” all the time. I think it would be very hard to have a monthly comic with no dialog from the ghosts, it would probably get boring very quickly. Look at the Ghostbusters cartoons, the ghosts talked. I think because it’s drawn in a more realistic way people are looking at it more like it should be a TV show or movie instead of what it really is, a cartoon.

Vigo was a ghost. And that guy seldom shut up.

Anyway…

Ghostbusters: The Other Side #1

Well, the good news, it’s a new Ghostbusters story, by a company that has a track record for actually putting stuff out. Compare that to the previous licensee, 88MPH Studios, who took an entire year to release the four issues of Ghostbusters: Legion and never did deliver the hardcover compilation that fans ordered and paid for three years ago.

(Oh, heck, rather than repeat some bitter rants here, I will direct you to a post on the Ectozone Message Board)

The art is good. Not spectacular, but good. But I gotta admit, the dual problems of “likeness rights” and “We think most fans want them to look like the movie actors” lead to some weird results. The cover, for example (which is not by the interior artist) feature characters that could, to some extent, be just about anybody. Heck, ironically, on the cover Winston looks like no one more than Arsenio Hall.

The interior art delivers a bit more characterization. Venkman looks pretty decent, with a nice unruliness to his hair that helps distinguish him (of course, he spends most of the issue posessed). Winston didn’t do much for me. Ray was pretty good, suitably goofball. Egon? I gotta admit, I really don’t like the spiked haircut. It just doesn’t fit him. It looks like something Janine drug him out to do under protest to try and “make him more hip” or something.

Of course, I’m the person who thinks current Ghostbuster licensees are missing the boat by not dumping the “make them look like the movie actors, but not enough to force us to pay them” bullshit game and just use the far more dynamic character designs from the cartoons, so take what I say on the matter with a grain of salt, I guess.

Story wise, I found myself in a very “1989 after GB2” state of mind, maybe because not one but two RGB episodes (“Partners In Slime” and “The Ghostbusters Live From Al Capone’s Tomb”) and two issues of the Now RGB comic (Vol.1#4, #7) from 1989 involved ghost gangsters.

None of the familiar supporting and secondary characters appear here, or are even mentioned: no Janine. No Slimer. No Louis or Dana. It’s just the four Ghostbusters and a bunch of ghost gangsters.

I admit there’s a few holes in the continuity, even knowing that (sigh) they’re not paying attention to anything from the cartoons. We know Venkman has been kicked out of his body, but there’s no reason for Ray and Egon to realize that until after they knock out the posessing entity and Venkman doesn’t wake up–over the course of the two movies, Dana, Louis, and even, briefly, Ray himself were posessed, and their spirits didn’t depart for the “dark void of dispair”.

A few good zingers, though. I laughed out loud when the entity posessing Venkman claimed he was “screamin’ like a little girl” and Venkman’s ghost retorts “That’s a total lie! Everybody knows I sound like a big girl when I scream”

Points for a shocker of an ending, though: Venkman’s posessed and his spirit’s in Purgatory. And Ray, Winston, and Egon have been shot with more holes than John McCain’s economic plan.

Final assessment: Frankly, I didn’t get nearly as much of an “Oh, Yeah!” zing out of this one as I did with Legion #1. I think the writers and artists of the earlier project had a much greater sense of familiarity with the property and characters at the outset. But I think The Other Side is still not a bad start, and plan to stick around and see where it goes.

I realize that it’s just a comic book, and of course the level of detail is never going to satisfy me as a ghosthead, but…I guess I was just surprised by how little it had to compare to the 88 Mph comic. I mean, after all the drama and hassle and disappointment of trying to get all the issues of Legion, it was (in my opinion) a damned good comic. An undeniable amount of attention was paid to getting the characterization, tone, and equipment right. It was even officially licensed by GM, so the Ecto we all know and love could be properly represented. As for the story, I thought it did a great job of being a realistic, familiar GB tale that fit in well with all the mythology and canon, and answered some interesting questions I’d always had. As for the spooks talking versus being thoughtless menaces, that really is a personal preference. Thoughtless specters fit into my ideology of Ghostbusters better than gangster ghouls. I know Vigo was human to an extent, and even Gozer took the form of a human, but they still behaved in a way that suggested otherwordliness…tough talking, stereotype spitting Mafia ghosts just don’t do it for me.

The point I guess I’m trying to get at through all this geekery (I hope I just invented a word, cause spellchecker seems to think so), is this-I assumed that IDW, which we all know has better resources, business sense, and credibility than 88 Mph ever had, would do an equal, if not better job than the company that fumbled it out the door over a year and failed to make good on the products they took money for. I figured it ought to entertain me at least as much as the first issue of Legion did, and it missed that by a mile. I’m totally going to buy the other three issues, of course, but I’m definitely less excited about them than I was before issue #1. What burns me the most is the promise of monthly GB comics that 88 Mph made, and which IDW has hinted at…I would have loved a monthly Legion style comic, and I still look at that cover art in Legion #4 and dream. But if this is the caliber of story and art we’re gonna get from IDW, I find myself much less excited at the prospect of that monthly book…

Sorry to be so long winded, but I was really excited for this comic, and, well, this is the place to blab on and on about it. And I’m still optimistic for the series, I do want it to get better, and I’ll stick by it…I just think IDW has some work to do.

Your feelings and opinion are understandable, for sure. The biggest issue I saw with it, was that the boys could handle an ancient God, as well as the returned spirit of a “very powerful magician,” but were caught off guard by generic, poltergeist-type spirits. That most definitely seems ridiculous, compared to the things they’ve battled before..

It does seem to be more of a cartoon style story, and it reminds me of the NOW comics, with exception to a slightly darker story and more detailed artwork. But, like you, I will still purchase the follow up comics. I’m just happy we’ve got something new to read, to be honest.

Alright, I figure now is as good a time as any to give my thoughts on the book. I warn you though, they may be long thoughts.

Let me begin by saying that I have faith in this book. Despite some shortcomings, it’s obvious that the people behind it are trying new ideas and are putting effort into it. I applaud this and I have no reason to stop buying it. Infact , I’m very curious to see where it goes, like many others are.

Now on with the show

[The Art]

 In my opinion, the first 5 pages of the story look fantastic. Everything is well drawn and the lines are crisp. The way the gangsters all glow blue works very well, as others have mentioned. I also like how they all still have their respective wounds. A nice touch. This is the type of "Dark" tone I anticipated, with ghosts' death wounds still being visible. I also like the intro to the ghostbusters. The colorist does a great job throughout the book. It really helps any minor equipment innaccuracies go down smoother.   Besides, RGB had radical redesigns and we all loved it. I actually like some of the changes to the traps, intentional or not. I also prefer the way the proton streams are presented here as opposed 88mph's book. I do wish they coiled around the ghosts as opposed to just sort of hitting them. The electricity running up the trap cord is nice too.

 Page 6 is where it starts to get wonky.

 The first panel there with Peter's soul makes him look like a cute anime character. I don't think it's the penciler's fault though. I believe this is where the fill in inker took over. The lines become thicker, and as such, the level of detail decreases, specifically in the faces. It's also quite apparent in the hose connection from the guns to the packs. The inker tries to do each ridge of the hoses seprately and the results are muddled at best. As they fire at the escaping gangster ghost, even the beams change. As we get into page 9, I hate to say, the quality almost turns into that of a coloring book. The faces look lifeless, the environmemts are flat (and in some places, non-existant), and in the last panel, it first appears as though Egon is hoisting Venkman by himself with no effort (despite him saying "OOF"), until you notice an off panel Winston's hand under Pete's arm. Egon doesn't look like he's trying to help at all. Again, thicker, less expressive  lines from the fill in inker leave little room for more detail. It's a shame we get our first glance of Ecto-1 here, because I have a feeling Tom put a lot more detail into her than we were able to see due the seemingly rushed ink job.

Things start to get a little better with page 10, but the fact that nearly every shot is a close up frees up more ability to get in smaller facial intricacies.

 Nguyen seems to return to the inking himself somewhere around page 12 or 13, as once again, the dead gangsters look great. The shot of the remaining guys eating at the top of page 15 is also nice. Everyone looks good there. From the front, I'm not the biggest fan of the way Ray's hair seems to be done, parted down the middle. It's like a grown up version of Ultimate Spider-man.

 From there, No major complaints, save for thses 3:

-The firehouse looks SO empty. There should be gadgets lying all around, stuff on the walls, etc.

-As the guys follow Venkman down the pole and outside, WHERE DID ECTO GO?!?!?

-It looks like there are a lot more ghosts in the firehousethan the 3 three that come outside to help gun down the boys, but we never see anything from them.

The last page looks great, though I would expect more blood from being filled full of holes. Probably can’t show too much without a mature rating though, which is understandable.

All in all, I think the biggest artistic flaw with the first issue lies hugely with the fill in inker. I hope that from here on out, Tom gets to ink his own stuff fully, or if a seperate inker is required, that one is found who can more successfully define the art without drowning it.

Well, that’s that. As a score, I would say that Nguyen gets a 8.5/10, while the substitue inker gets a 2.5/10.

Up next, THE WRITING!

SPOILERS BELOW! DO NOT READ IF YOU HAVE NOT READ THE COMIC AND WANT NOTHING SPOILED!

You know something? I’m am absolutely one of the least picky people you could ever want to meet. I am extremely easy to please. Even so… I have to admit that I agree a lot with Spengs.

I mean, I personally don’t care all THAT much about minor details like whether the equipment looks EXACTLY perfect, or whether or not Venkman’s pants are tucked in. I don’t care about minor details like that as long as it looks accurate enough.

I am VERY glad that I knew about the whole Ghostbusters dying in the first issue thing, because otherwise, that would have kind of annoyed me a bit. But, I honestly do have to agree with a lot of what Spengs said. This comic didn’t feel very much like a Ghostbusters comic to me. As crappy as they were on the business end of things, the 88MPH comics were GREAT! They were funny and spooky in the proper dosages just like the Ghostbusters movies. They felt like they could have been a Ghostbusters movie.

This whole storyline just feels too rushed. There was barely a laugh in the first issue. Not only that, but we barely got to see the Ghostbusters be the Ghostbusters. And now, how are we supposed to see that at all when they are dead and, I suppose, are going to now be ghosts themselves.

I honestly didn’t like the idea of this storyline from the start, and the execution is already seeming to prove my worries. After all, Venkman is one thing, but how are the other three supposed to come back from being shot to death? Also, am I the only one who thought Ray looked WAY too young in the artwork in the comic? He looked like a little kid to me, and I’m usually not one to nitpick about such things.

With all that said, don’t get me wrong. I will still get the rest of the series. I still look forward to reading the rest. I am still EXTREMELY happy that we are getting a new Ghostbusters comic book series. I’m just honestly not terribly impressed yet. I’ll give them a chance, but the thing is I was extremely impressed with the 88MPH comics right from the first issue. I found myself wishing they had been able to continue because they were so great (I hadn’t been able to get them until long after the whole fiasco). I will, of course, give them a chance, but so far I am still waiting to be impressed.

I thought it was OK but not nearly as impressive as Legion #1 was when it came out. Hopefully the story won’t end up being too ridiculous (I mean Winston, Ray, and Egon are all dead so how could they come back to life?) We’ll have to see but regardless I am happy that a new comic is out and that there is growing interest in the Ghostbusters property again.

I’m missing the comedy. Ghostbusters, the movie, was one of the biggest comedies of all time, they captured this very well in the cartoon show and in the Legion books… This author has no feeling for the typical dry humor, he’s replacing it with darkness. Of course it’s there, but it’s reduced where it should dominate. He also can’t handle the really great characters. Legion does GB way better… I think it’s kind of ironic that this little ketchup company does it right but could not handle the business, and the more professional IDW’s able to do a regular series, but misses the point.

Just my two cents, I feel happy for those who like the “other side”.

I totally agree, Raven and Dragon, there is also no real humor present. I laughed several times when I first read Legion, and it still makes me chuckle. But there wasn’t anything close to funny in TOS…I just re-read TOS #1 last night, and then the Legion series, and I continue to shocked at how badly IDW fumbled this one.

I cannot agree with you guys any more! I did not like this book one bit.

The Art: Why is Egon an anime character? Why is Ray in High School? Why is the only thing they kept about Peter was his hair line? Why is Winston punching everything?

The Story: There was one? I’m giving this one more issue to get me interested in the story line.

I can see past the busters dying, I can see past the fact their using Meyers Lansky, Bugsy Malone and all the other mob bosses… But what the hell is with the dialog?

Not once did I believe those guys were the characters I’d come to love.

I’m VERY disappointed in IDW at the moment. I read IDW’s Transformers line of comics and I find them to be otherwise excellent - the All Hail Megatron series is REAL good at the moment. All the robots are accurate, dialog is believable, very few changes, everything is AWESOME…

And then there is this pile. Which I give an overall D- … coming UP from an F because it has a GB logo on it.

Disappointed.

I do think we should email IDW about it though, considering that the transformers line used to be - well… not so great, they came to listen to the readers and came to the realization that WE are the AUTHORITY on it, despite the fact they have control of the reins on the universe’s current direction…

The story

It certainly gets off to an alright start, setting the scene and tone appropriately and giving us a bust within the first five pages so we’re now already had a taste for the style of action we’ll probably see for the rest of the miniseries and (hopefully) any further endeavors of the IDW Ghostbusters title.

It’s a solid read for 22 pages, it doesn’t leave you feeling there wasn’t enough pacing and it doesn’t leave you feeling like more could have been included before the end of the first issue, and the story pulls in a dramatic, but expected cliffhanger at the end of the first act. The cliffanger isn’t any less shocking thanks to the scene preceeding it which was a lot more graphic then I expected it to be. The series so far isn’t pulling any punches. It’s hard not to draw parallels with The Real Ghostbusters. Like Fritz observed in his review, this could easily slip into one of the existing stories either the show or comics NOW published had crafted. That isn’t neccesarily a bad thing, although I admit that spectral gangsters mostly haven’t really been of much interest to me.

So as the story goes, so far, so good… but we’ll have to see how things stand once the other three issues have been released and the story is complete. I certainly know that Keith Champagne set me off a lot with his comments about The Real Ghostbusters, and I also can see why people felt that in terms of story, Legion was richer, for as badly as the company was handled, the comic was well written… and by people who loved the property, whereas it could be seen that all this is is a quick cash in. with all the other Ghostbusters merchandise.

The Dialogue

I personally feel the script hasn’t been as developed in some areas as maybe it deserved. The Ghostbusters’ dialogue in the first scene at the bust feels ropey in places… and at points, even out of character.

1. Venkman saying “Gosh” - This is something which probably sounds more appropriate from Stantz rather than Peter.

2. Egon and Ray on Peter’s possession - Like Fritz observed, even dicounting cartoon continuity, possession isn’t exactly new territory for them. And seeing as this is specifically set after Ghostbusters II with obvious references to the villains of both films, it kinda contradicts continuity.

After this point it gets better, so it almost seems like the dialogue from the first scene was almost a first draft that was never reworked.

The only other bit that got a tad confusing was at one point (Gildir also commented on this particular issue on GBN) Bugsy and Al Capone seemed to refer to the same ghost and yet with the dialogue is set up, almost seem to call him by two different names. A set of caption boxes would’ve easily sorted this out, and would provide a bit of help for those not quite so familiar with American Gangster history (althought it was a nice touch that Bugsy Seigel exhibits woulds that reflect the injuries he sustained when he got whacked) seeing as the scene only works if the reader is aware of each of the gangsters, of whom only Bugsy and Capone were names I knew.

I’m hoping we’ll see Janine before the series conclusion, because at this rate she’s about the only person who can drag their bodies back into the Firehouse.

Aside from those issues, the rest of the story seems adequately written… there are good references to fictional texts that serve as research for the Ghostbusters and, once again as Fritz pointed out, the bit about Venkman “screaming like a girl” was great, more of that please.

The Art

It’s taken me a while to adapt to the style after Legion, and whilst it is not my favourite I’ve grown to accept it for what it is. Peter and Winston look good and channel enough of their respective actors… and whilst Ray is depicted maybe a tad younger then he should be, his is also alright, and in some panels even channels Dan more than the other Ghostbusters. As for Egon… I’m still not a huge fan of his spikey hair, but facially he’s fine.

The equipment isn’t as ‘on-model’ as I’d like, taking a number of liberties with the elements of them… but they look like what they’re supposed to look like at any rate, and it also seems liberties have also been taken with Ecto-1, which actually seems a tad bare as it’s missing some of the more familiar elements on the roof. It also appears to have taken visual cues from Ecto-1 as it’ll appear in the game, which I personally don’t have a problem with. I just hope a bit more time is spent on the car in future issues to give it a tad more TLC.

There are some notable elements suggesting things were rushed, like has been pointed out the walls of the Firehouse are pretty bare, and considering that New York itself was a character in the films… it’s disappointing to see it represented in some panels as a swirling mass of light. I can see what was trying to be achieved, but it also seemed like it was cutting corners.

On the subject of the Firehouse, there’s what appears to have been a rather sloppy mistake… when Ecto-1’s entering the station, rather than being swung open, the barn doors are lifting up as if that panel had been drawn and Nguyen had started to put in the shutter that Hook & Ladder 8 has, only to realise his mistake… and I’m sure this could’ve been corrected rather easily.

Hopefully these’ll be one-time occurences once everything’s moving along smoothly, however I do feel a little cheated by IDW through their use of cover artwork to promote the series (and the fact they got other artists to pencil the covers)… I feel that they should’ve either had Tom pencil the covers as well as the interiors, or have the cover artist do the series so that there’d not only be consistancy, but also so there wouldn’t be issues of misrepresentation.

The Characterisation

Not too much to note, they’re pretty much in character for the whole story (with the exeption of the noted first scene) so no major issues there. I quite like the idea that Winston may have now become a doctor, if that wasn’t some sort of strange joke on Ray’s part. Hopefully it’ll mean Winston will be given some long deserved respect and coverage in this new series…

Whilst not perfect, it has a lot of potential and it could become a good enough series and achieve the dreams the 88MPH series wished to achieve. Either way it’ll be great to have a on-going Ghostbusters comic series again, and as it could then continue on after the game has come out and be a continued piece of merchandise long after the rest of the stuff has been finished, it could be a nice way of bringing new material to the franchise for a few more years. I just hope that it doesn’t go the Army of Darkness route, and release several four-issue stories that usually had a gap of a month or two between each subsequent release. Make it a proper on-going Ghostbusters comic series, please!

I just got a chance to read it.Personally,I liked it.I thought they pretty much nailed the personalities of the guys.I also liked the ghost referencing Gozer and Vigo.I thought this really helped tie this into the GB universe.I also like the end of this issue,it really makes me interested to see how they resolve this and explain what happened.Overall very enjoyable.I don’t see any reason to obsess over every single ■■■■ detail.Just sit back and enjoy the ride.

i just picked this up yesterday and i read it and the ending to me was a WTF moment…i hope something good happens in issues 2-4, but as far as how they protray the characters, i think they did an ok job, and the art is really good.