Do you old timers remember back when everyone who had a proton pack made it from parts they found lying around? When terms like “Split Loom” or “Clippard Valve” were Greek, and all we knew is what we built?
My friends… I believe this great Era is coming back. With force.
People like Astanax and Martian263 have done so recently, and may I say they both did an AMAZING job.
Does anyone else here feel the same way? That it’s time to go away from vac-formed pieces, and resin cast knobs, and go to the days of old where you thought “this looks good, I’ll glue that there.”
I would have to agree with you… I like the screen accurate proton packs. But I also miss the first packs I built, the seat belts for shoulder straps, the round thing that looked kind of like a cyclotron (didn’t know that’s what it was called then though), using a light kit from a set of “Construx” toys I had, and using whatever gauges, meters, tools, or cool things my dad would let me have. Ahhh, those were the days… I think someone on another post said it best, it was something like, in the days when it didn’t look like the movie, but everyone still knew what it was… I will build another one. :twisted: LOL :lol:
To be honest I remember those days fondly. When I was in high school I built a not so accurate but awesome pack. But now that I am older, debateably wiser, and my overall skills and eye for detail have grown, I just can’t go back there. I am still scratch building my pack, but I want a proton pack, not something that looks like a proton pack.
This is not a dis on the original packs out there made from found household items in any form. There are some really great looking original packs out there. It’s just a matter of where I was 14 years ago and where I am now.
I personally encorage all forms of creativity, so go at 'er boys and girls and have a blast!!
I remember those days, but I don’t think everyone needs to go back to them. Yeah, they were great, but something in me always wanted better, better, better. I agree we need to get more people away from the pre-fab stuff and do some building of their own!!! Unless you are like me where you make your own vaccumforms so you have that really smooth, clean surface (I just don’t like woodgrain, sorry!).
But, I also know there are the people who need the vacs b/c they either can’t build them on their own or don’t have the time to do it.
I thank you for your kind words, Shades - it’s good that someone out there still remembers the spirit (no pun intended) of the olden days.
Perhaps we can inject some creativity back into this ‘sport’ - I miss that sense of excitement. To me, it was NEVER about who had the most accurate prop. It was about how creative a person could get, making something that looks cool for what it is, in and of itself.
“There’ve got to be a few sparks of sweet humanity left in this burned-out burg…we just have to figure out a way to mobilize it!” - R.S.
And by this I mean no offense to those out there who’re all looney on 1000.10% accuracy. It’s not now nor has it ever been my style.
You can either buy shells outright, or wait patiently for people to make parts that are 100% accurate. Shell out about $400-$800, and with 1/8th of what it used to take (effort wise), you have a 100% accurate proton pack.
To me, that’s an extremely boring thing to do.
I attribute my feelings to a combination of being the sort of person who threw away the instructions to his lego sets in his youth upon opening the box, and having already made a reasonably accurate pack. Case in point? One or two dimensions on said proton pack are off, and while all the major parts are there, minute details are inaccurate, and 5% of it is yet unfinished. To be honest, I grew tired of the idea of achieveing accuracy - esp. since so many others have done this already.
What I’m saying is that I guess I miss the sort of posts that went something like, “Hey, I just bought a [doo-hickey A] from this flea market, and darned if it doesn’t make a great [Proton Pack Part B]”, and I’m getting tired of posts that go, “Waiting for my vaccum-formed shells to come in the mail, maybe my resin-casted parts will be delivered first”
I disappeared from “The Scene” because it changed, and the change bored me.
Again, the preceeding paragraph is comprised of my personal thoughts and feelings. I’ve been playing this game a long time, and that’s just how it evolved…or, I should say, how it evolved me.
I hope that maybe some of you understand the issue at hand a little better, and that none are pissed off.
Wow, I don’t know how to respond to all this talk, I really didn’t think my pack was anything special, and here it is being compared to the greats. Mind you it’s still not in the same class by any means. Of course I can’t compare the argument of Screen Accurate vs. Original, as all I’ve done so far is my original version. The thing is, sure I had a blast making my pack, and rummaging through the hardware stores, electronics stores, Radio shack, and even dollar stores to find things for my pack, and letting my creative juices flow, but though it looks like a Proton Pack, it’s still not a proton pack. Even now, so close to Halloween, I find myself second guessing every little thing, adding small details, trying to make it better, and it’s just not good enough. I think Pete hit the nail on the head when he said, “I want a Proton Pack, not something that looks like a Proton Pack”.
Let’s face it folks, we’re a group of perfectionists, we can’t help it. It’s our competitive nature. We may all be on here under the pretension that we are here to support each other, but the truth is we’re all out to “One-Up” each other, and look for the praise. I mean, it’s not a bad thing, really, someone has to worry about the details, the world would fall apart if it weren’t for the perfectionists.
On the other hand, Personally, I don’t much care for the vacuformed packs, despite the amount of detail and work put into them, they still look like plastic. They don’t give that metallic looking crisp 90 degree angles. They’re just too curvy and the pieces just meet into each other too smoothly. Of course Metal is too bulky and wood-grain doesn’t give the right texture either, so there really isn’t a winning situation here. I suppose the best bet would be to form each piece individually and bond them together, but that would take a lot of work as well.
I don’t know, I think the best way to win out is still the idea to design some new props to build, something that is inspired by Ghostbusters, that might be used if there were a new Ghostbusters film, but not an actual prop that has to be 100% screen accurate because there’s no film to inspire it from.
This is all funny to me because it was always my intent to make my costume for this year, and move on to another costume last year. I’ve had an ongoing rule for Halloween, I always get a new costume each year, it can’t be a store bought costume, and each year I try to top the last year’s costume. Last year was a Roman warrior with real metal and leather armour, which was setting the bar pretty high, but this year I managed to set the bar even higher with the GB costume. Now, the really funny part is, the costume is done, as done as it’s going to get before Monday, and then I should be done with the whole thing. No point working on a new Proton pack or new props when I have no intent to wear the same costume again next year. Sure, I could make it more screen accurate and that would be great, but my friends and family isn’t going to know the difference, to them it’s still the same costume. So why is there this sick little voice in my head that keeps telling me to make a better Proton Pack?
I completely disagree. I do not believe there are no official rules as to what constitutes a proton pack. Proton Packs are fictional pieces of equipment. If we were trying to make watches, obviously a watch is a watch; it has a specific set of parts that are required to make it into what it functions as. Case in point: There are variations in each individual screen-used proton pack. In other words, the creators of these things didn’t even truly bother with 1000000% sameness.
To me, if you build something to the best of your ability with the intention of making a proton pack, then a proton pack it is. “Proton Pack” is not a title your prop should have to earn, nor should anyone here see fit to designate them as such - unless you are one of the people who built the originals, and even then you’d still be a pretty big jerk.
Isn’t this a bit of a generalization? I am a lot of things - a perfectionist is NOT one of them. I also am not here to “one-up” anyone. Praise is always nice to recieve, but if you’ll notice I also try to give out praise generously when it’s warranted, and helpful suggestions where necessary. As for the world falling apart, fine, but this isn’t the world. It’s a very specialized hobbiest group, and I think this notion of “perfectionism” (despite it’s merits) and holding everyone to a standard is working to destroy this community.
A little competition never hurt anyone, so long as it remains friendly. Pretensiousness, and trying to best people by making them feel as though their work is inferior is the opposite of friendly. I think it would be better for everyone if we promoted a community where positivity is the rule, rather than the objection - don’t you? Wouldn’t that make everyone a better propper (and encourage creativity) in the end, instead of being afraid to post pictures of something that doesn’t fit into the paradigm of these so-called “perfectionists”?
Personally, I don’t like them because they’re too easy to just buy and build, and they ensure that everyone ends up with identical props that are completely indistinguishable from one another. It also makes it very easy for people to make really good-looking props without doing the work of actually building the components; it’s a short-cut, the easy way.
Yes, you seem to have completely defeated yourself with your own logic.
Because building them is fun!
Please do not misunderstand me - to summarize, I don’t find anything wrong with wanting to achieve screen accuracy in your props (not yours, personally - I mean it in the general sense). screen accuracy is awesome, as we all can agree - however, it’s EXTREMELY uncool to make that the standard, and then use it to posture and put others down, and pass judgements on what is good and what isn’t. You’ll find that this completely kills true creativity. That’s not what this community was about when it was started, and it’s REALLY sad to see it in this state.
Whew, that was a lot.
I hope you’re not mad, dude - and don’t be so hard on yourself. I think you made a really cool pack; a breathe of fresh air, after looking at everyone’s identical proton packs, the same exact thing over and over and over again; it’s like watching the discovery channel all day and then realizing that hey, there are OTHER channels, too!
I don’t think the competition here has been anything but friendly and supportive, only words of encouragement have been uttered here. That’s not to say there still isn’t competition here, but no one has taken themselves too seriously. I’m sorry if I gave that impression. The strive for perfection is in the individual. It’s the whole reason that, while I have my pack, I have that voice telling me to try harder. No one here has said my pack wasn’t acceptable, just like no one here has said anyone’s pack wasn’t acceptable. Out of all the packs I’ve seen here so far, yours is one of my favorite Astantax, because of the details you put into it to make it look used and beat up. Made me go out and get some paints to try and give the same effects to my own. I’m just saying we all have a natural desire to try and do more, whether that be to build more screen accurate packs or build a cooler looking original pack, it’s the drive that keeps us going.
Wow! This has gotten to be a great topic… That being said I would like to elaborate on my thoughts a little bit. I have built a screen accurate pack and would not trade it for anything. BUT, I do miss the days of “inventing” a proton pack. That being said, I would like to take the skills I learned building my screen accurate pack and design and build my own updated version… Just for fun!
So it would be like the old days, but not really!lol
I, too, have a “screen accurate” pack, although it’s not good lol. But I wouldn’t trade it for anything either because I put some work into it. I like it because it’s right from the movie. I can picture it on Dan Aykroyd’s back, running through the Sedgewick. But it’s like Brian said
So why should everyone have a carbon copy of the same thing, if they’re all made by different hands? Man, I need to build a new pack. And I’ve got ::counts on fingers:: three days to halloween. I can pull it off.
First off, I will probably be flamed for having a very contrary opinion and I am sure frailer egos will assume I am trying to bash their hard work or desire to be creative. Though I have to say there seems almost to be a counter attack on those who spend a great deal of effort and creativity to build an accurate pack. This is no attack on anyone, please keep that in mind when reading it and keep it all in context.
Personally I have not seen a single custom pack that I like (before getting your pitch forks and torches please hear me out), why would I like it? I have no fond memories of seeing it in a film as a kid. It does not re-create a cool looking prop that I love from a film. Sure I can see and appreciate the creativity or the effort that was put into it, I can find them even interesting, but would I want one? Nope, I want a replica of a proton pack. Unless I am mistaken we are talking about a hobby revolving around building replica props.
To compare the “good old days” when parts hadn’t been identified and there were no digital photos of packs at Planet Hollywood to use as reference, when all people had was images burned into their memory of a cool prop to what we now have is not an even comparison. Firstly, unless I am wrong, the goal in those days was to get screen accurate. Just because people might have used different do-dads and gizmos and did it all by what they thought looked right does not mean their end goal was to create a unique vision of a proton pack. Would we have gotten to the point where there are packs that look identical to the real packs if this was not the goal of most?
Proton packs are fictional, but that does not mean they lack definition. They are defined in look and function in two movies, they have as much definition of what comprises a “proton pack” as a watch, probably more so since variations are VERY minimal in the movie props in comparison. After all, I think we have all seen a million types of watch, with more configurations and variations on parts than you could possibly count. How many variations of the fictional proton pack have we seen? They are very well defined if you ask me. By such standards should we expect to see a pink Darth Vader costume with white lights blinking all over and a faux fir leopard print cape and be willing to accept that since Darth Vader’s armor is fictional that it too lacks a solid definition? More than once people have poked fun at the back packs with bicycle reflectors and stickers all over it on ebay being sold as a proton pack replica.
I applaude people for putting out a lot of hard work and effort. I think it’s great that people want to be creative and do something outside the box, same for all the custom lightsabers and such. If you want to build a unique pack that is fine, but I like accurate packs.
The issue of accuracy is not the same issue of the waves of people looking for a snap together pack that they just have to sneeze on in order to have it complete and accurate. Even if you got a vac formed shell and resin cast pieces, and real fittings and real split loom, you are still looking at a hell of a lot of work to get things together.
Well if I could have a pack and all the gear accurate down to the smallest detail then I would be pretty happy with my GB prop building life, and I imagine that would take a good deal of time and effort, there are always new details to find or perfect. Pretending that that were the case, then I would move onto another project, a replica RGB pack, other movie prop replicas. Perhaps build other accurate packs…there is no shortage of routes to take.
Well, I have no problem with your personal opinion - and you’re right, you have a vastly different one than mine. Like I said before, I’ve seen enough perfectly accurate props that I could absolutely scream. Once upon a time, when I first got into this, we were all a LONG way from attaining perfect accuracy, so much so that the very idea wasn’t taken seriously. If you could somehow find Norm’s original plans, version 1.0, you’d understand what I mean.
Um, to compare something to something else IS a comparison, by definition. I think what you’re trying to tell me is that the two eras are incomparable…again, I’m not sure, but I’ll go with that.
First of all, we had more than “images burned into memory” - in 1996, I’m pretty sure the “pause” feature had been invented on VCRs. Plus, there was Planet Hollywood, DC, and the hard work of Norman Gagnon, resulting in his (albiet primitive) proton pack plans version 1.0.
All 3 of these things - screen captures, pictures of the Planet Hollywood DC proton pack, and Norm’s old plans - were available on Bill Embow’s website, which was the ONLY source of such things before Eraser99 and I had our little feud. I’m sorry, but we certianly DID have “digital pictures” then, technically - pictures taken via film camera and then scanned onto computer - digitized. We weren’t bonking rocks together.
Yes, that was certainly true…
Perhaps not, but it happened anyway - and some of us really enjoy the look of these unique creations, rather than the same exact replica every time.
No, and that’s why I kept saying (if you remember) that striving for perfection had it’s merits, at one point. But now, that same drive to be 100% perfect has been qualmed, for some of us who’ve attempted it and come reasonably close. I can’t speak for everyone (and I’m not trying to judge anyone either), but I’d wager that there are others like me who’ve done the whole screen accurate thing and have sort of grown a little bored with seeing the exact same thing churned out by more and more people every day. You have to understand that I and several other people on this board have been actively partaking in this hobby for one year short of a decade. At first, the idea of a 100% screen accurate prop was the ultimate thing for me, and now that I’ve come reasonably close to that, it’s lost it’s appeal for me. To be honest, if it wasn’t for these unique, think-outside-the-box props I wouldn’t even be here, writing this absurdly long post.
Just because such variations don’t exist, doesn’t mean they can’t, if we allow them to. The fundamental error in your logic concerns the role of the rulemaker. Who exactly says that a proton pack can’t be whatever we want them to be? Did the original propmakers put this in writing somewhere that I haven’t seen? Was it in the movie, somewhere? The answer is that it’s a construct of our little online society, a construct that is quite recent and one that I feel obstructs creativity, and makes it a win/lose situation. Under this system, a certain group of people who make one or even possibly several fully functional and extremely accurate props become the leaders/rulemakers - the alphas, if you will - and there begins hierarchical society and all of it’s trappings. We get cliques, and insults, and feuds and factions and wars and all other sorts of stupidity (you can fill in the blanks with your own personal experiences and/or imagination). All of which fog the real reason we’re here - to make ghostbusters stuff that looks cool. Martin, I know it may not be this way here on this particular board, but this is a common thing that exists everywhere, both on many message boards and also in real life. I am making an effort (since we seem to be starting with a clean slate here on gbprops) to stifle this sort of idiocy before it starts.
Who cares if a prop’s not 10000000% accurate, so long as it’s a strong attempt? If you want to go for that level of accuracy, then that’s fine, but everyone should be “allowed” to show us their best work without fear, regardless of how it compares to some predefined standard. If you want to have a contest, then start one and say so. It shouldn’t be a 24/7 silent contest.
Interesting suggestion. For one thing, I said originally that I meant the person should at least be trying their hardest to make a screen replica - unless you watch Star Wars while on drugs, you won’t see Vader in leopard print. Furthermore, I’m going to go out on a limb and suggest that us GB fans aren’t quite as militant about that sort of thing as are Star Wars fans. Some of you may scoff or be insulted, but rest assured I’m a Star Wars fan myself, and I indeed know the nature of the beast, so to speak. If you’d like some details, just ask.
While I can’t say anything about the intentions of unknown Ebayers, it’s wrong to laugh at other people’s creations. That’s the kind of thing you see in 4th grade art class, and there shouldn’t be a place for it here.
And that’s fine, no problems here with that. I believe that this place should be home for all levels of interest, so long as you don’t think you’re better than anyone because you built something that’s more accurate. There should be no place for that stupid stuff here.
This is true - I was afraid I didn’t make enough of a distinction before, so thank you for mentioning that.
Not as much as you would have if you actually built these things yourself. I’m sorry, but I have built an accurate pack the hard way, and I can’t imagine it being just as hard to paint molded plastic and bolt it on to a motherboard - sorry. It’s still work, yes, but it’s about 1/8th the amount of work.
Please bear in mind that I’m trying to keep this in the realm of a spirited (again, no pun intended) debate, and in no way am I trying to offend you, dude. You clearly have your personal opinion (which I understand and completely respect), and I have mine. I’m just trying to get you to understand where I’m coming from - I’ve been doing this a long time, and the unique props, such as the ones posted here lately, are really all that interest me about this hobby these days - and by this, again, I mean no offense to anyone, and I’m not trying to say I’m better or anything crazy like that. This is all just how I feel - I’m trying to see if anyone out there feels the same way.
And martin, I thank you for your very nice compliment, earlier in the thread.
