You have to wonder what the filmmakers were thinking when they made this movie. Here they have an opportunity to give fans a movie they’ve waited a long time for and we are in an era where you can make some really cool ghosts. What do we get? Terror dogs? Arms coming out of chair, Marshmallow men, Gozer, a skeleton ghost, a gluttonous bulbous Slimey ghost, a ghost based on a toy from the cartoon. Sound familiar?
It’s so lazy in it’s lack of the new it’s astonishing. I know Ghostbusters 2 got ripped on for repeating the plot but god damn, at least the Ghosts were new and really cool. They gave us something new! The Scoleri Bros are not Slimer.
Seriously. This movie has Gozer and it has no idea what to do with her. None. It’s embarrassingly bad. At one point she’s just laying there.
What did she want? What was Gozer’s purpose? Have any of you seen the concept art for this movie? The artists are creating wonderful ghosts and imaergy and..ugh. For Christ sakes the idea that Gozer had appear however it wants is BAKED into the mythology. Sooo? Let’s have her appear EXACTLY the same way it did before.
Oh cool. She can shoot lightning out of her finger tips. What else can she do? Oh. Oh…that’s, um…that’s it? That’s all you got?
The only thing new we get is the Ecto 1 car chase. And it’s easily the only point in the movie with any pulse. It’s like yeah! Ok! More of this! Give us something new. Oh…terror dogs? Ok well maybe this time they’ll…oh. Ok. Same thing as before?
That sentinel terror dog looked kinda cool. But nah. Who needs that? We can just give you exactly that you had before except not as funny or cool or fresh.
I’m amazed the GB fandom has gotten behind this movie the way it has. Yeah it’s fun seeing all the old props and stuff but…see having Gozer again isn’t the problem, the problem is what they do with her/it.
The reviews really nailed the problem and its fan service. Having mini Stay Puft Marshmallow is fine. But having them come out of a bag is stupid. Stay Puft was in the original for a very specific reason. This time the reason is “oh! Hey! Isn’t that cute? I remember Mr Stay Puft!” And that’s just filmmaking at its worst. It’s lazy,
I like the movie and understand why they needed to play safe and be conservative to course correct the franchise…
I would’ve had Gozer ask Shandor if he was a God, and have him say “Yes”, and then have Gozer inhabit his body in painful-looking and viscerally transformative way, proving that Ray was actually wise to say “No” in the first movie. Combining J K Simmons look with the insectoid concept art would’ve given us a different Gozer aesthetic for the final confrontation. Idk if that wouldve been better, just spitballing.
Interesting. I agree that they played it safe but from their POV what does that even mean, “play it safe”? And why would you ever want to do that? But that’s totally what they do. The subtitle of this movie shouldbe been “Ghostbusters: All the cool things you loved about the original except they are less cool here”. I think that would fit on a marquee don’t you?
Did the original movie play anything safe? Nah. Here’s how you can play it safe: make the best movie you can and give people something unique that they’ve never seen before.
Everything about Ghostbusters works because it’s stuff we’ve never seen before. No had one seen Ghosts like Slimer before. Or the Scoleri Bro. They were unique and cool.
I didn’t like the GB16 movie but they least did something new. And while I didn’t find it funny…at least they tried to make it a comedy. That movie swung for the fence. It missed, but at least it swung. GBA didn’t even swing. They bunted.
GBA is one of those movies that is so frustrating because the potential is there. How the son of the director of the original movies could make such a lazy effortless Easter egg hunt is kinda sad.
This movie is SO reverential to the original movie. But in all the wrong ways. You watch and listen to the behind scenes stuff about the making of the movie and it seems like they cared so much but then you watch the movie and it’s like…ok? There’s a fire pole leading down to Egon’s basement. That is only there to reference the original and it’s at cost of making sense. How the hell does she get back up? Climb the poll?
And there’s stuff that’s so good. I love Phoebe playing chess with Egon & that whole thing. It’s creepy and mysterious. But I can’t stand the ending where Egon’s ghost randomly decides to show up and it’s like…this is Ghostbusters? Shouldn’t I be laughing? Or the sequence when they catch Slimer 2.0. It’s wonderful! Ok here we go now we are cooking. Oh, they get arrested? Which leads to an all time groaner of a line reading. “Who ya gunna call?” But the biggest sin of the movie is the finale. The 3rd act.
We have no idea what Gozer wants. Why is she just sitting around? What about the destructor? Why is Gozer even a thing anymore? It turned into Mr Stay Puft and was destroyed but they closed the gate. Then the OGB’s show up with zero set up beyond Ray’s Phone call, nothing can be worse than having characters show up that provide ZERO function. They show up, shot their beams, fall down. Make 1 or 2 lame quips, Gozer is destroyed in a way that is far less cool than the original and the movie ends. No destructor, no nothing. She’s just sucked into dozens of traps which is extremely silly.
If you are going to have Gozer again the one thing you CANNOT do is have the original movie top every single god damn thing she does. And that’s what happens. The original tops everything. That flip she does, her presence, her voice, her eyes, the surprise that it’s a “girl”. By god please do something different! Besides having her lay down twiddling her thumbs.
I hate that in my mind I can make a better movie than what we got. I hate it.
I don’t think the placement of the Easter eggs were lazy. Then again outside of the 40, 45 year old demographic the new fan base isn’t going to recognize the same equipment, call backs that we’ll necessarily get. I rather liked not having to hunt for call backs like that. Was it a bit over done?
Maybe. I will agree that while muncher was unique Jason missed a huge opportunity for some unique ghosts just diving into Oklahoma’s rich paranormal history. Hopefully this comes back in fire house. I would have liked to have seen more of the miners. From the civil war to the wild west you could have had spirits of train robbers digging up their loot in some ones back yard. The scene could play out with someone on the phone describing the ghosts as they dig.
Simple additions like that could have been used and seen as being creative.
While I loved Afterlife there were some things I would have expanded on. Was it better then the last two movies? Yes. Yes it was.
[quote=RichardLess post_id=4972025 time=1661200741 user_id=47215]There’s a fire pole leading down to Egon’s basement. That is only there to reference the original and it’s at cost of making sense. How the hell does she get back up? Climb the poll?
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There’s fire poles in the previous 3 movies…
That explanation was unfortunately lost on the cutting room floor. You see a glimpse of it in the Gearhead Guide special feature, there’s a basement bulkhead. And yes, why didn’t Egon just use that to go in and out. He didn’t let anything go to waste. Even he missed the fire pole in the Firehouse. Shrug. What’s the in-universe reasoning for that? There’s other fish to fry. I concede you can fault Jason for an overindulgent visual. But I went with the Ray stance, ‘it’s cool’ and didn’t dwell on it any further.
[quote=RichardLess post_id=4972025 time=1661200741 user_id=47215]But I can’t stand the ending where Egon’s ghost randomly decides to show up and it’s like…this is Ghostbusters?
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You think it was random? Ha. I could understand you making ‘this kind of thread’ but that line makes me second guess myself and wonder if you’re trolling. It was the finale. The all or nothing moment. Of course he would fully manifest to help.
[quote=RichardLess post_id=4972025 time=1661200741 user_id=47215]Ok here we go now we are cooking. Oh, they get arrested? Which leads to an all time groaner of a line reading. “Who ya gunna call?”
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Hated that line, too, but they shot up the town. You think the sheriffs would let it go?
[quote=RichardLess post_id=4972025 time=1661200741 user_id=47215]We have no idea what Gozer wants. Why is she just sitting around? What about the destructor? Why is Gozer even a thing anymore? It turned into Mr Stay Puft and was destroyed but they closed the gate. Then the OGB’s show up with zero set up beyond Ray’s Phone call, nothing can be worse than having characters show up that provide ZERO function. They show up, shot their beams, fall down. Make 1 or 2 lame quips, Gozer is destroyed in a way that is far less cool than the original and the movie ends. No destructor, no nothing. She’s just sucked into dozens of traps which is extremely silly.
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It seemed like it was a stickler for ritual. It waited on the temple stairs to be approached by mortals like in the first movie. Shandor broke that ritual but getting up in her grill and we saw what happened to him. I suspect by the dialogue, Gozer was getting to that Destructor question but the ritual was interrupted when they trapped Zuul. So like with Shandor, it shifted from the ritual to regaining cohesion and then killing them then probably would have went back to becoming noncorporeal and invoking the people in Summerville to choose the form.
I thought it was cool to see that the Proton Streams do work on a god, there just had to be at least 4 to effectively stop it in its tracks. But to see its counters to 1 stream against Lucky then Phoebe was cool, as well. Better than Vigo’s tantrum shockwave. The Trap Field was silly? C’mon. It was progression. It shows that gods are trappable, but it takes a lot more effort, which is logical, requiring 198 Traps to pull apart its P.K.E. and accumulated energy (i.e. the sacrifices) then trap it. I found the slime drenched Vigo spiraling into the painting dimension and blowing up then showing the OGBs and Oscar in as Renaissance painting style to be more silly and harder to reason out.
[quote=RichardLess post_id=4972025 time=1661200741 user_id=47215]By god please do something different! Besides having her lay down twiddling her thumbs.
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See above, it did different things in Afterlife.
That explanation was unfortunately lost on the cutting room floor. You see a glimpse of it in the Gearhead Guide special feature, there’s a basement bulkhead. And yes, why didn’t Egon just use that to go in and out. He didn’t let anything go to waste. Even he missed the fire pole in the Firehouse. Shrug. What’s the in-universe reasoning for that? There’s other fish to fry. I concede you can fault Jason for an overindulgent visual. But I went with the Ray stance, ‘it’s cool’ and didn’t dwell on it any further.
[quote=RichardLess post_id=4972025 time=1661200741 user_id=47215]But I can’t stand the ending where Egon’s ghost randomly decides to show up and it’s like…this is Ghostbusters?
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You think it was random? Ha. I could understand you making ‘this kind of thread’ but that line makes me second guess myself and wonder if you’re trolling. It was the finale. The all or nothing moment. Of course he would fully manifest to help.
[quote=RichardLess post_id=4972025 time=1661200741 user_id=47215]Ok here we go now we are cooking. Oh, they get arrested? Which leads to an all time groaner of a line reading. “Who ya gunna call?”
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Hated that line, too, but they shot up the town. You think the sheriffs would let it go?
[quote=RichardLess post_id=4972025 time=1661200741 user_id=47215]We have no idea what Gozer wants. Why is she just sitting around? What about the destructor? Why is Gozer even a thing anymore? It turned into Mr Stay Puft and was destroyed but they closed the gate. Then the OGB’s show up with zero set up beyond Ray’s Phone call, nothing can be worse than having characters show up that provide ZERO function. They show up, shot their beams, fall down. Make 1 or 2 lame quips, Gozer is destroyed in a way that is far less cool than the original and the movie ends. No destructor, no nothing. She’s just sucked into dozens of traps which is extremely silly.
[/quote]
It seemed like it was a stickler for ritual. It waited on the temple stairs to be approached by mortals like in the first movie. Shandor broke that ritual but getting up in her grill and we saw what happened to him. I suspect by the dialogue, Gozer was getting to that Destructor question but the ritual was interrupted when they trapped Zuul. So like with Shandor, it shifted from the ritual to regaining cohesion and then killing them then probably would have went back to becoming noncorporeal and invoking the people in Summerville to choose the form.
I thought it was cool to see that the Proton Streams do work on a god, there just had to be at least 4 to effectively stop it in its tracks. But to see its counters to 1 stream against Lucky then Phoebe was cool, as well. Better than Vigo’s tantrum shockwave. The Trap Field was silly? C’mon. It was progression. It shows that gods are trappable, but it takes a lot more effort, which is logical, requiring 198 Traps to pull apart its P.K.E. and accumulated energy (i.e. the sacrifices) then trap it. I found the slime drenched Vigo spiraling into the painting dimension and blowing up then showing the OGBs and Oscar in as Renaissance painting style to be more silly and harder to reason out.
[quote=RichardLess post_id=4972025 time=1661200741 user_id=47215]By god please do something different! Besides having her lay down twiddling her thumbs.
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See above, it did different things in Afterlife.
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Ultimately, I disagree overall with your opinion but there were some nitpicks that I agreed with.
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You felt there wasn’t enough Easter eggs? Really? Why? What would more Easter eggs add? This movie went over board with that stuff. The mini pufts, which I don’t know if they classify as Easter eggs, but they are exhibit A) on how they lazy the filmmaking was. I’ve mentioned it before. Mini pufts aren’t a bad idea. Infact the idea could be really good. If they did it right. But they put zero thought into it so the mini pufts stupidly come out of a bag in a grocery store. It’s the single dumbest thing in any Ghostbuster movie. All they needed to do was have Egon keep a bunch of Marshmallows samples from film 1. And when the PKE energy in the town reaches a certain threshold, mini pufts form. It’s such a better idea that it’s almost unbelievable that they never considered it. Instead we get these characters for NO REASON other than SEE! Remember Mr. Stay Puft! Ugh…
And no, the random part is how and why it happens WITHIN the story. Egon could’ve manifested before now. But instead we get a saccharine “ok I’m off to heaven now” or whatever that non sense was. There was no reason given why Egon manifested physically right then and there beyond “because it’s the climax and the audience wants to see Harold Ramis”. I don’t have a problem with showing him. I have a problem with doing it during the climax because it’s the climax.
Your reasoning for Gozer’s lack of plan or doing anything is built on “maybes” and “probably”. Which means you don’t know. You shouldn’t have to guess what the villains wants. This is storytelling basics. And we should ASSUME Gozer wants the same things as before. But…that doesn’t happen. Nothing happens. She stands around and shoots lighting. Yawn. We’ve seen that! The movie shows her doing nothing new beyond laying down and…uncrossing streams. And the “Are you a god?” line is such an eye roller.
Yes the field traps was silly. No I take that back. It was stupid. It turns Gozer into “just another ghost”. Gozer can be trapped. Gozer. The Demi God. Which means Gozer can escape again. But it makes the original movie less cool knowing Gozer is just some ghost. Gozer was a Demi god!
You thought it was cool to see proton streams work on a god? You mean the god that just stands there? And sticks her arms out for finger lightning? In the first film we get her doing a big epic flip. And she just isn’t even bothered by the proton streams. The go right through her! She vanishes!
I mean…was it cool? Ultimately this is the problem of the proton pack. And it hurts me to say this because by god it’s a beautiful weapon. But. Ultimately standing around and shooting beams gets a little old. Which is why each bust from the 3 main films is great, Slimer was the first time we see how this all works, the scoleri bros was the first time we had two ghosts, this film has a car chase bust. But ultimately if your characters are standing around just pushing a button and there’s nothing else for them to do…it gets stale. Which is why the stakes need to be raised. Use the proton packs creatively(this movie has them powering the generator which is something? But not nearly enough). The first film they close the portal, the second film they add slime blowers. Now I agree the 2nd films weakest link is the climax. Compared to the original it’s embarrassingly “meh”. But the villain is at least new. We aren’t seeing the same villain doing less impressive shit than in 1984. So that’s the difference for me.
A better climax would’ve upped the ante a bit. Do something new. How about Gozer wants to bring her dimension here and this starts to occur and slowly we start seeing the farm change into this hellish landscape(similar to what we see in Dana’s fridge but more cool). Maybe gravity starts acting differently. How do they close the portal? They can’t cross the streams again. So maybe…and this is just me quickly spitballing but maybe the idea is to blow up a proton pack inside the dimension causing some sort of pseudoscience energy flux thing which reverses the polarity and the dilthium crystals from the warp core is ejected and auxiliary power is transferred from the phaser banks to the shields. Oh wait wrong franchise. But you get the idea lol
No. Here’s how you could do it. They need someone inside the her dimension with a proton pack. Ray volunteers. All of a sudden Egon’s ghost manifests. He stops Ray. He straps on a proton pack. The OGB’s know what this means and what to do. “But Egon..this is a one way ticket. Your spirit will get stuck between worlds”. Egon smiles. Then the idea is for Egon to enter the portal mouth hole where the other dimension is slowly phasing between worlds and they aim for Egon’s pack. Inside the portal Egon sees a hellish nightmare. Terror dogs, Slors, other Demi gods that look similar to Gozer but different, floating masses and indecipherable runes, torrents of plasma energy, blue lightning and evil looking clouds. He fires up his proton pack trying to get it to maximum load. The OGB’s beam cross thru the portal and hit Egon’s pack, Egon looks back, all see him smile for the last time. BOOOOOM!
Again. That’s just me doing something quickly and you can still get the emotional beats.
The main problem is the lack of imagination. The first two films had it to spare. The first movie invents all this stuff and then the second movie we get the river of slime and positive and negative energy, and evil painting coming to life.
Again, they have the same villain except everything is much less interesting/mysterious/suspenseful and epic. “Let’s give them Gozer again except this time she won’t transform into one of the most iconic moments in comedy film history. She will just stand there & shoot lightning. Maybe earlier we can have her rip a maybe dead/maybe not dead guy in half”.
See that was cool. When she ripped buddy in half. But you could lose that character and that moment from the movie and it would affect nothing. It’s completely superfluous.
I just hate that there’s another Ghostbusters movie that I can’t enjoy. I’m not trying to be difficult. It’s just…man. They get it so wrong. It makes me appreciate the originals more because holy shit making these movies work isn’t easy.
Janosz only trying to kidnap the one baby with an indirect connection to the only threat to his master was the single dumbest thing in any Ghostbusters movie. I mean, good for the world and its continued survival, but so dumb.
The Mini-Pufts were both something new and a callback. Something new as in Gozer’s energy animating something. I don’t think it was a coincidence it happens after Vinz enters the Wal-Mart. It was a step up from eggs popping out of shells and self-cooking.
I’m now reminded we argued about this in the main talkback thread or one of the others so I don’t think we need to keep going on this one.
Gozer wanted to become whole again and kill the kids. That was… more vindictive… more personal and intimate than other Destructor Form gag. Do we need a fourth movie with another giant? That would have been a yawn. Yeah, we saw the finger lightning but we never saw it against proton streams. And more of her raw strength in being able to uncross the streams and send the GBs into the air made her a bit more scary than compared to the first movie. And the fact that she ate souls was disturbing, too.
She killed. It’s moot how alive Shandor was but he alive and kicking in that moment and he got murdered. When was the last time you saw someone get murdered on screen in a GB movie?
Gozer wasn’t just another ghost. A regular ghost takes 1 trap. Gozer, a god, took almost 200 traps! What’s your definition of a god? A god and a ghost are just two paranormal entities on different ends of the scale.
Yeah, Gozer actually bothers to fight them in a pre-chosen form. That was cool. The first movie just skips over any real fight for the spectacle of Stay Puft. I’m of the opposite, the more I rewatch the movies, the less I enjoy the end battle in the first movie and dig the second movie and Afterlife’s end battles.
[quote=RichardLess post_id=4972045 time=1661242223 user_id=47215]Ultimately standing around and shooting beams gets a little old.
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Yeah, they have to do something drastically new for the next movie in terms of equipment and the ‘solution’ at the end.
Sorry to hear you can’t, but there are people like me that can still disagree with some choices but I still enjoyed the movie overall.
I agree with this. I thought Afterlife was a great “drama” angle on a Ghostbusters 1 sequel. It was very touching.
I also thought there were not enough easter eggs. Egon basically used 4 props in GB1 and they missed out including all 4 in GB:A. None of the tools Egon used in GB1 were in Afterlife, while there were a whole bunch of random meaningless items.
These are all the tools Egon used in GB1.
Jordan Radiacmeter (Rooftop scene just before earthquake)
Beckman HD 110 (Chinese takeaway scene where he is building the neutrona thrower)
I kept looking for the first 2 in Afterlife, especially the yellow Beckman voltmeter. That had to be in Afterlife among all the junk in the farmhouse but it wasn’t.
I liked Afterlife after I got over the (in my opinion) only problem with it: That Egon would thieve all the equipment from the Ghostbusters, ending them, and that Ray would stop believing in the paranormal and want Egon to burn in hell. Those two points were so fundamentally not Ghostbusters and so unnecessary they really need a lot of mental energy to accept.
That was my take-away too. I could sit here and nitpick the movie for ridiculousness all day long, but the first two films had their own points of stupidity. So did the video game sequel and the IDW comics. If I can overlook those things in those stories, I can do it for Afterlife too. Easter eggs, call-backs, gags, whatever. There’s a certain cheese factor established in the world.
What I’ve got a hell of a time buying is that after years of working together [at university and then in the field with the paranormal and supernatural], Ray would just one day say ‘Screw it, I don’t believe in that stuff anymore and screw Egon too’.
Now, I’ll preface by saying that could buy Ray ending up bitter and jaded in his older age, but not for the reasons we’re given and not about the things he’s bitter and jaded about. I think it’d take a lot to make Ray hate Egon to the point he’d wish the guy would burn in Hell. It was too far a stretch for me to buy into Ray being bitter just because Egon had taken the equipment and thought another cataclysmic event was coming. First of all, Egon was the one that built all of their equipment so it was his property. Ray surely had input, but he ultimately had little to do with its creation. His name’s not on the inventor’s plates. Second, unless I’m recalling incorrectly, Ray had mentioned that ghost-hunting had eventually dried up after the events of GB2 so that stuff wasn’t in use anyhow. The team effectively ran out of work and had to find other jobs to do. So… why would Ray be mad that Egon took his property when nobody was using it anymore?
Couple that stuff with the reason Egon took the equipment in the first place; Ray would’ve been the first in line to believe that another world-ending phenomenon would happen in the future. Ray always had his nose in books about the occult. For Pete’s sake he owned an occult book store. GB1 established Ray and Egon (presumably) regularly scoured that material for happenings, predictions, legends, etc.
I could’ve bought Venkman being angry at Egon over the predictions. He’d be the one to dramatically call it quits, leave, and swear he wasn’t coming back because he’s saved New York and the world twice and for little thanks whatsoever. Screw 'em all. But Ray being angry and bitter at Egon? Can’t buy it. I could buy him being discouraged after years of inactivity from spectral sources. I could buy him being disappointed or sad or anything in that vein. But not bitter and angry.
If I had to throw a fix-it tool at that point of the film, I’d say run with the ‘Ray always seems to get possessed’ bit we’ve seen happen before. He was chosen as the conduit for the Destructor’s return as Stay Puft, he was possessed by Vigo… If Gozer/its minions had possessed him or if they were actively altering his mind and influencing him to react negatively to Egon to force and subsequently keep the Ghostbusters apart (thus allowing Gozer’s return to finally happen) then I’d buy it. Phoebe could even still call him, snap him out of his stupor by saying the exact right things to trigger deeply ingrained memories or whatever long enough to get him to call the guys up and show up at the climax to save the day.
But I digress. Overall the movie was a love letter to GB1 and GB2. It wasn’t perfect, but like others have said I think it didn’t stray out of the prior films’ ballpark because they were course correcting after 2016’s somewhat polarizing reaction. I’d agree that that’s a huge shame, but I can see *why *Sony would choose the road of extreme caution over letting the creative winds take the film into the unknown.
We get it OP you hated Afterlife and the direction of the next movie. Creating a topic to specifically repeat the same complaints really is just trolling.
There’s a few fair criticisms I agree with but we’ve all mentioned them already. I thought using Gozer again might make the movie repetitive but it feels like a legitimately different story that picks things up many years later. I think it did a great job and I’m super excited for the next one.
(And I don’t care what anyone says…the Mini Pufts deserve to be there. Hmph…Haha)
Ugh…God damn it. Ok. Since someone decided to call me out on this I guess I need to explain lest I be considered “a troll”.
I’m not trolling. Some of the things I may have mention previously some I may have not. Not that it’s anyones business but this hasn’t come up(or maybe it has?) but as a lot of you know I went through a rather serious medical issue last year…what I don’t think I’ve shared, and frankly I don’t like sharing because it’s embarrassing & people start treating you different, is i a suffered a stroke while in a medically induced coma. So my short term memory has been severely affected(and it’s an intermittent random thing which makes it very frustrating). And I also enjoy foods I never did before. What makes it worse is the medications I’m on to treat some of the lasting side effects. Oddly enough the memory issues and repetition tend to surround negative emotions. Kind of interesting. Maybe Dan & Harold were on it something.
But people treat you different went they hear “stroke”. I’ve gone through it with friends of mine.
The way it works is I remember having conversations about things, but they lack a context. So if I repeat myself on here, which I think I did even before this shit happened, please send me a private message rather than calling me out publicly.
Now all that being said…
I stand by what I wrote & I really don’t think a forum discussion on the “lack of imagination” within this movie is trolling, even if I’ve stated some of the points previously. The main GBA is hundreds of pages long.
It seems really odd to me that Gozer didn’t end up taking on a destructor form. Doesn’t Vinz’s quote suggest that Gozer always takes one of the pre-chosen destructor forms? Basically Gozer is one thing, but then it has a ton of extra potential when it takes on the destructor form, and it just left that power untapped? Do you think a field of traps would work on Stay Puft? They’d probably burn his foot off… Frankly, I find it unlikely that Gozer was ever defeated prior to '84 (unless another god decided to step in), and just hopped between dimensions causing terror. I feel like the destruction of Stay Puft was the end of Gozer. I know Gozer showed up in Afterlife, but Afterlife seems to revoke a good deal of the existing Gozer lore (at least as implied in the first movie).
I recall a lot of trolling surrounding ATC, such as people saying that women aren’t funny. Obviously that’s false, and an invalid criticism. But all I see here are people expressing differing, yet valid, opinions on Afterlife. I don’t see how that amounts to trolling.
I’m kind of torn on all this, as I absolutely agree with almost all of the criticism, but still find myself going back to the film and enjoying it on the strength of some of the central performances.
I fear they oversteered in appeasing the ATC backlash and had too much reference for reference sake, and too much equipment rollback that was confusing for lovers of the second film, but I do get why as a business Ghost Corps would find itself needing to do that to ease some worry over at Sony.
It feels the Ghostbusters thing was secondary to something Jason wanted to do for Ivan, and maybe that’s ok? Maybe some fans too, particularly in a post pandemic world, needed a little bit of gentle mourning/celebration. There must be some reason some people are so enthusiastic above and beyond what the script actually delivers. I refuse to believe there’s a failing of critical thought on quite that scale!
Maybe my one counter is with the ‘trapping Gozer’ thing - i read it as this manifestation of Gozer being literally created from the souls of the dead miners, so once the traps trapped those specific souls, then what remained of Gozer is easily dispersed. You can certainly see spirits being sucked from her and trapped during the sequence. I dunno. I’m more bugged by the fact the original plan appeared to be to trap another terror dog rather than Gozer. At least it certainly isn’t Gozer that comes for Egon… it’s almost like none of it really makes any sense…
I agree 100% on the ATC thing. Remember how on message they were throughout the marketing? How many times did we hear “this is for the FANS”? They gave critics so much ammo when they talked up all the Easter eggs and fan service stuff.
The problem with the movie is the script. It’s actually really well directed. But the script is…well, I’d repeat myself but I might accused of being a “troll”.
What’s interesting is that every problem in the movie is caused by stuff from the first movie. A lot of the new stuff kinda works. The car chase? Awesome. I like the characters. But then you’ve got the OGB’s, Gozer, the mythology of the first movie getting contradicted here, the marshmallow men(which again, love the idea, hate the execution).
When the movie focuses on family stuff? I’m good. It’s like Jason Reitman had this idea for a Goonies type movie and shoehorned a Ghostbusters story in it.
The performances, I agree, are all mostly very good. But when you slap “Ghostbusters” on something…there’s some expectations that go with that. Comedy being one I’ve mentioned a lot.
It’s weird how some movies we can overlook certain flaws yet others we can’t. I get it. There’s a bunch of movies that I love that are incredibly flawed and yet…I can’t help but enjoy myself. But I hold Ghostbusters to a high standard.
It’s like a death by a thousand cuts I guess. If it were just the odd issue, ok, but the fact that there’s people here saying that thought they movie needed MORE Easter eggs…that shocks me. The fan service is so detrimental here. To me anyways
Like the Marshmallow men were included for one reason and one reason only. Y’all can try to head canon it all you want. Why do regular marshmallows transform in walking mascots? When has ghost energy ever caused anything like that to happen? Yes we get eggs popping. The eggs are not transmuted into Humpy friggn Dumpty. Why aren’t other mascots walking around? We all know the answer and the fact that some of you are ok with it kinda surprises me. It shows a complete lack of caring, thought or originality on the writers part. The goal was to create a merchandising opportunity & if the film had put some leg work into it, some very simple leg work, it could be forgiven. But they are the films problems writ large. Like I said before..the solution was right there.
I get what you’re saying RE Gozer and the trap but I just think having your main big bad villain go out the way every other ghost does is just kinda…meh(it doesn’t matter if it’s one or 10000 traps. Plus I’m not even sure why they need to power all the traps with the generator. Since when do traps have a external power source? That’s like saying if I had 1000 cars I’d need extra battery power to turn them all on. Then again, this is Imaginary technology we are talking about here. Still tho, the generator thing never really made much sense given how we’ve seen traps work in the past).
It’s probably safe to say that the traps needed a lot more power to catch a god than they would to suck in a ghost, so it makes sense that they’d need to rely on external power.
It is interesting how many traps they built. They must have had a day’s worth of traps, and only emptied them at the end of shifts.
Like I said earlier, looking at the sequence of events in both movies, disrupting the ritual leads to an aggressive reaction from Gozer. In the first movie, they did not think to/try to trap the Terror Dogs. Instead Ray established a dialogue with Gozer, demonstrated her power, discorporated and made them choose a form. In Afterlife, they interrupted the ritual by trapping Zuul and running away. You don’t slight a god so it seems logical it would deviate from the ritual to restore its power then make an example of them then resume the ritual.
I’m curious about that, too. Is the only time Gozer vulnerable is when it arrives in its pre-chosen form? Like what would happen if instead of shooting Stay Puft, they trapped Zuul and Vinz? Hard to say because other mediums explored that notion like in the IDW comics, they were able to trap some of Gozer while it was Stay Puft with a high powered Mega trap but it was still able to remanifiest in a slightly weaker form after about a year. I feel like in the movie canon, it may be the former. It’s only trappable in the pre-chosen form and only simultaneously trapping Zuul and Vinz at the same time and a multitude of traps powered up but once the Destructor is chosen, that’s the point of no return and standard plans won’t work like only the one in a million shot of crossing 4 proton streams into the Temple of Gozer’s portal worked.
It was a tricky balance, sure. It was a love letter to the first movie, a eulogy for Harold Ramis, tidying up the chess board to set up the return of the business, and introducing new characters.
Yeah, I could see that. Like the core of a god is belief in it then the accumulation of souls of those who believe create it and give it existence kind of? I think the notion with some of the dialogue of Podcast was Gozer maintains its power by “feeding on souls” sacrificed to it, but in the GB pseudo-science, taking the energy of these souls aka P.K.E. and adding it to its own reserves. Sort of like with Rodefhiri, the 1st Bogeyman, in the IDW comics except that one took the energy out of children who were still alive.
I think the reason Egon called Ray was in part to convince him of Gozer’s return then they would convince Peter and Winston then they would all go to Summerville and when Gozer manifested, use the Trap field on it. But when Ray did what he did, Egon had to come up with a back up plan as the sole party by himself. The easiest thing would be to delay/manipulate the process of the ritual slightly by creating the 4 thrower apparatus to cross streams so he could observe and time it so he could trap one of the Terror Dogs and then lead the other to the Trap field and capture it, preventing Gozer from being able to cross over to the physical realm per that rule of needing them.
I’m wasn’t saying overstuff it with easter eggs but just a couple more like some that we know of that got cut should have stayed like the 1-a license plate. Or some other parts seen in there to put a stamp on the is Ecto-1 and Ecto-1a separate cars debate to bed but instead they seem to have decided to keep stringing us along. I’d guess there are more easter eggs in the underground lab but the lighting in this movie was so damn dark at times, even in 4k, it’s hard to make out everything.
Again observe the events of the 2 movies. I think it is a matter of time. The eggs popping were at the beginning of the summoning. No Terror dogs crossed over yet. The city wasn’t running amok with ghosts yet. I think the P.K.E. levels were still relatively low so the strongest thing at that point was eggs popping and Dana seeing the Gozer dimension for a hot second. Then in Afterlife, the Terror Dogs are clearly crossed over and so the energy level is stronger with their physical presence hence the animating of the marshmallows. But my nitpick is they needed to show more things, felt like they had to play it safe because of budget since the only thing they added was the Bug-Eye ghost later on in post. And thanks to the concept artist Paolo Giandoso, they were toying with the firefighter mascot costume animating, too, but ultimately went with a ghost “on fire” chasing people and the firefighters for a brief second that could be missed if you weren’t focused on the miner ghost. And yeah, they showed environmental manifestations like ectoplasm pouring out the miner memorial in front of the post office but they could have shown more stuff being animated, too, like mannequins, appliances, etc. in the store, too.
Have people considered that Gozer isn’t as powerful as you’re assuming? Has Gozer ever encountered a post-industrialized world before? If we assume Gozer has in fact destroyed many worlds but all of them were Medieval or earlier equivalents her actions make way more sense.
Think about the events of the first movie. Gozer arrives in a pre-chosen form or perhaps her default form. We get the “Are you a god?” exchange. Gozer shoots lightning at the Ghostbusters. There are only two real possibilities here, either she was actually trying to kill them or she was merely toying with them at that point. (Maybe their equipment “absorbed” enough of the attack that it didn’t actually work or something. I tend to think she was merely toying with them at first not understanding the danger to herself.) They then try to shoot Gozer with their packs. She casually dodges the first attempt and decoporializes during the second. Then does what has always been an instant “I win” for her by choosing a destructor form.
But Gozer would have never manifested as marshmallow before. As soon as the Ghostbusters “roast him” he exhibits an expression of serious pain and catches on fire. He then immediately stops destroying things and proceeds to start going after the Ghostbusters. While in the giant marshmallow man form Gozer never does anything that a giant marshmallow man couldn’t otherwise do if it were alive. Gozer also appears to have all of the weaknesses that a giant marshmallow man would have (extreme vulnerability to burning.) We don’t see Stay Puft shoot lighting back at them or anything of the sort, he climbs the building while still burning from being hit. Once at the top for a split second Stay Puft looks shocked and horrified as the realization of what they are doing occurs just before blowing up.
Fast forward to the movie Afterlife. This time when confronted with Ghostbuster technology Gozer actually fights back in “sorceress” form. More importantly she is winning until the trap field goes off and sucks up all of the ghosts powering her. Fun fact as far as I can tell Egon’s ghost is touching the modified Spengler pack the whole time the trap field is sucking up the ghosts. Maybe that’s why he didn’t catch himself.
It’s funny, I’ve never considered “Ghostbusters” to be a comedy any more that I would consider Indiana Jones, Back to the Future, or even Goonies. I just always assumed all those were awesome adventure movies that happened to also have the occasional jokes.
Lol. You are trying so hard to make the mini pufts make sense lol. I respect the attempt but P.K.E levels do not cause transmutations. Now if the scene had ALL the food or items turning into Mascots? Ok. We’d be on the same page. But that doesn’t happen. And we both know why that doesn’t happen. I need you to acknowledge that the mini pufts becoming sentient Marshallow Men was done for merchandising and in fact makes no sense. Yes we are dealing with supernatural make belief so there’s some leeway on what’s possible but the fact that they chose Stay Puft
I’m with you on the Ecto 1A. I would’ve liked to have seen a nod or acknowledgment of GB2 beyond Rays Occult so yeah I get what you are saying there. I’d agree with that. But I still think there’s too much fan service stuff and Reitman treats the stuff far too reverentially when Ghostbusters was always an irreverent film held together with spit and duct tape. It’s not Star Wars. And I don’t even mean that in a success or quality sense but just that these are the guys that made Animal House, Blues Brothers, Caddyshack, Meatballs & Stripes.
I think there’s a way they could’ve made the fan service work and that would be having Paul Rudd be a Ghostbusters/paranormal Superfan. So when he sees the books stacked up at Egon’s he would geek out and say “Wow! symmetrical book stacking! Just like Philadelphia in 1947!”. They go that way a little bit with him but it would’ve been neat had they leaned into it harder. Like when he sees the mini pufts or terror dog I think it would be funny if he were totally stoked and excited. When he sees the terror dog instead of running away he geeks out. The terror dog tries being scary but Paul Rudd isn’t afraid and is running towards it trying to get close. As a reverse on the original movie he ends up chasing the terror dog! “Possess me! Please! Come on! I’m totally willing!” Perhaps the terror dogs needs an unwilling host. We’ve seen terror dogs as frightening beasts so it might be funny seeing one running away kind of whimpering with its tale between its legs as Paul Rudd chases it across the parking lot.
I’m not trying hard at all. I watched the two movies a lot, compared and contrasted the scenes, looked for differences and similarities, and looked back at what rules been established in various mediums. I put some time and thought into it. I don’t read your post and type for 5 seconds with a stream of consciousness. It’s now borderline insulting that you only react to my replies with a short ‘lol stop pulling it out of your ass.’ I only get frustrated trying to have a discussion with you. Sorry if you want to keep debating or whatever this is, but I’m excusing myself from this thread after this post.
How do you think the ghosts fully manifest in the movies? It’s because the P.K.E. level in the area surges, they each take some of that energy and take form. I already acknowledged they should have showed other things coming to life which you didn’t bother to reply to. And P.K.E. can animate objects. I can’t believe I had to type that.
I won’t admit Mini-Pufts were only done for merchandising. Reitman and Kenan already stated they did Mini-Pufts because they didn’t want to do another giant entity when they were thinking of how to reinvent the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man. Jason Reitman said, “We were talking about Stay Puft and this iconic enormous character that was echoed in some ways through the '89 and '16 films. And we knew we didn’t want to do that again. We thought, ‘How do we reinvent Stay Puft?’ ‘What if he was tiny?’ And we immediately identified these Gremlin-like creatures who enjoyed watching the world burn. Who were just like curious 5-year-olds that wanted to break everything, who didn’t feel pain, and as a result, could truly torture each other. And yes, at this point, it was impaling. It was burning. It was s’mores. Anything we could think of we wanted to do in a Wal-mart when we were 5-year-olds.”
The movie is in part a love letter to the first movie. It wouldn’t be complete without some hat tip to Stay Puft but they were not going back to the well worn path and instead did it in a creative way, imo.