This has probably been discussed before, but with the new movie coming out I felt it deserved to be mentioned again.
I feel that it’s worthwhile to discuss the difference between the GB1 and GB2 streams on the neutrona wand. Positron collider.
Although GB2 was a newer movie and more special effects based, the streams were actually less refined and quality than the GB1 streams in my opinion.
The GB2 streams were just generic. Thin with an orange base. They had the distortion field in cgi when they trapped a ghost, where the ghost would be squeezed etc. but the overall stream effect was more basic than GB1.
The main awesomeness of the Ghostbusters proton stream:
In GB1 the blue sparks shot foreward and the orange beam actually shot inward in tenths of a second when fired. AND the orange stream had a black core or base to the stream, that was not there in GB2.
Black lines in the core of the orange stream in GB1 that were not there in GB2.
That’s what made the beam so interesting.
This is probably superfluous but I wanted it to be mentioned with the new movie coming out.
Two things before I get into this, I believe there are topics on the forum already about this, and 2, no CGI was used in GB2. That being said…
I disagree. While GB1 has my favourite proton stream moments(shooting at Mr. Stay Puft, “Aim for the flat top“, and finally crossing the streams) GB 2 is much more consistent. All the proton streams in GB2 look great. Some of GB1 ones are a bit messy and inconsistent.
Look at GB1 when they trap slimer. It doesn’t look near as good as the “lasso” effect the beams have in GB2. I love that lasso effect. When the GB’s trap Slimer they just stand there has the beams form a shell around the ghost. In GB2 they wrap around the ghosts and pull him like a fishing line.
The rushed timeline of the first film had a bit to do with the inconsistencies in the streams. The Boss crew basically had to figure it out as they went along. Although GB2 had an equally tight post schedule, ILM had a lot of time in pre-production to really get the look of the streams down, plus add a few new elements to recipe.
Richard is correct, there weren’t any CGI in GB2. What you’re seeing in the trapping shots is a really cool camera trick that Dennis Muren came up with just prior to GB2. Essentially shooting a reflection of the effect on mylar, while the mylar is being moved around around, giving a funky warped look to the FX elements. The same thing was used for Vigo’s scrunched up face at the end, plus a few Scoleri shots.
Almost entirely true, especially with the proton streams and whatnot being rotoscoped and optically composited. That being said, if I can be ‘that guy’ for a second, I always believed that this shot at 1:06
of the Statue of Liberty’s head was a CG render. I don’t have a source on it but it certainly looks like one and it’s in line with the CG work that ILM was doing at the time.
And regarding the VFX differences between the 2 movies, like everyone else pointed out, Boss Films were super rushed and also suffered from being a startup on their first show. ILM introduced a ton of consistency. GB1 has some really nice shots but the effects in GB2 outshine it as a whole.
edit: seems I’m mistaken about the CG statue of liberty!
That’s funny. I use to think that shot was CGI too. But nope. There is no CGI at all in Ghostbusters 2. Zero, nada, none. ILM wouldn’t be able to do CGI faces or texture until The Abyss a little later in 1989 and Ghostbusters 2 schedule was so insane there’s no way they would have the time. They could barely finish the work they had.
You can learn about how the effects were done in GB 2 by reading the Cinefx article about them. CGI was such a breakthrough at that time, we’d be aware if CGI was used and it wasn’t. There wasn’t even any digital compositing, which Indiana Jones and the last crusade featured during the “death of Donovon” just a few months prior.
ILM CGI breakthrough goes like:
1982 Star Trek Wrath of Khan(the Genesis demo effect)
1986: Young Sherlock Holmes(stained glass knight)
1989:The Abyss(pseudo pod effect)
1991:Terminator 2(T1000)
1993: Jurassic Park(obvious) and then CGI took off like a rocket from there.
Ah interesting, I was always convinced that was the sole CG composite in the film. I thought I also remembered reading it somewhere or hearing it on a podcast, but that’s probably a false memory. I think it would have been a feasible CG shot for ILM at the time being a static object, but yeah that schedule was rushed on GB2. One nice perk from when I worked there was that you could reach out to company email aliases asking about stuff like this, and there were enough long time employees still there that you’d almost always get interesting stories back. Learned some wonderful things, but ghostbusters never really came up apart from learning about Harold Weed playing possessed Ray.
[quote=Couture post_id=4938134 time=1597276528 user_id=38005]- of the Statue of Liberty’s head was a CG render. I don’t have a source on it but it certainly looks like one and it’s in line with the CG work that ILM was doing at the time.
[/quote]
I can see why you feel it’s a CG render, but I feel confident in saying that’s a composite of two practical shots: Footage of the guys in the gimbal-assisted Statue of Liberty crown set, and footage of the scale model of Liberty’s head/shoulders/torch arm:
I mean…it really does look like a CGI shot. It’s true. If I didn’t know otherwise I’d just assume it was(like I use to). Just marvel at it…from the smoothness of the pull out to the texture of lady liberty herself. It’s an amazing shot considering it’s just optical. It’s a shame Mr. Lawrence is no longer with us(Rest in Peace) he might’ve been able to enlighten us as to why this shot stands out. I think FX guy & make up guru William Forsche worked on this portion of the movie but he doesn’t come round these parts. Maybe if we close our eyes and say his name 3 times he’ll
…Hold on a second… You worked at ILM? Details please sir! copious Details! How long did you work there? What did you do? What movies did you work on?
William Forsche sculpted Lady Liberty, along with documented the entire ILM GB2 production on video. Dude seriously has like 50 VHS tapes of GB2 material. It’s insane.
Mark Vargo, Tom Rosseter, or Ned Gorman would be better brain-picking for that particular shot. Vargo was one of the few FX guys that worked on both GB films.
Thanks for all the excellent info everyone! I stand very much corrected. Seems I have some reading up to do, I need to get a hold of the cinefex article.
Here’s my daughter with him. I found him a child so that he might live again!
I worked at the Vancouver branch as a CG artist (specialized in lighting & rendering) for a few years but left last November. I got to work on all the types of titles you’d probably associate with ILM (star wars, marvel, a transformers, etc). It’s a super interesting company, especially if you’re into modern film history. It was definitely surreal getting to work alongside people who I watched in behind the scenes featurettes when I was a kid.
Spook Central has a PDF of that issue. Issue number 40 I believe. I’ll copy and paste the link. If you feel like supporting them with your wallet you can also purchase back issues thru their iPhone/iPad app.
Hahaha, LOVE IT! I’m dying to get out to the west coast post-COVID. I’ll definitely be making my way to the Presidio to pay my respects to our Carpathian overlord.
“Industrial Light & Magic: Into the Digital Realm” is another good resource for GB2 FX. It’s way out of print, but copies are pretty inexpensive on eBay.
Excellent thanks! Will definitely be reading this.
Right on, I actually own that book but have never got around to reading it. I’ll have to skip forward and check out the GB2 chapter though. I also definitely recommend a presidio visit next time you’re in SF. A warning though - you’ll have to find an employee to arrange a private tour if you want to see the GB2 stuff (and almost all of the other cool artifacts) since it’s beyond the employee-only gates. Can be tricky if you don’t know someone on the inside. Otherwise you can still check out the grounds, front lobby, and premier theater. Those are all cool as well, but the experience is on another level if you can get a tour. Same goes for Skywalker Ranch… another great place to visit but you’ll need an employee to host you and drive out to it on a work day. Do it if you can though.
Paul recently revised the site so you can’t hotlink directly to the PDFs anymore. Truth be told, it’s probably my fault because of how often I link people to them in discussions on social media.
Just looking at the end of the GB2 coloring book and saw this. I wonder if this is where the urban legend of Slimer flying out of the Statue of Liberty in the theatrical cut of the film originated…
The “Slimer flying out of the Statue of Liberty” ending was definitely a thing. It was in the script and storyboarded by ILM. From what I gather, it was cut prior to the Slimer scenes being filmed at ILM with Robin Shelby.
Yeah, but as far as it becoming an urban legend, I wonder if that was mainly from people seeing that coloring book page. Most people, until the internet, wouldn’t have had access to those storyboards or the script, and the cut scene doesn’t appear anywhere else as far as I’m aware; neither in the NOW Comics adaptation nor the B.B. Hiller novelization…
