How do you defend a movie that is bad from people saying it is bad, but for the wrong reasons? If someone saying GB2016 is terrible because women can’t be Ghostbusters are you suppose to argue that it wasn’t bad because women can’t be Ghostbusters, but because of 50 other reasons? That’s why there wasn’t a response to the sexist comments. Also, Sony pushed the story forward and turned their movie into a political statement. It wasn’t just an else worlds movie that happened to have 4 female Ghostbusters, it was a feminist statement. Feig took our beloved franchise and used it and then Sony took it and exaggerated it even more.
The worst part was the trailer. First it says 30 years ago 4 scientists saved the world. So… first off, it wasn’t 4 scientists. Now I know they couldn’t have said 3 scientists and their hired help, but they could have said 4 heroes. They could have said 4 average heroes. They could have said 4 out of shape shlubs. Nope, they said 4 scientists. So already the trailer proved they knew nothing of the original. Even worse is that this makes it seem as if the movies were related to each other. So fans who saw the trailer go in thinking this is a sequel. I was one of those fans.
Throughout the movie I was waiting for the connection to the original. I thought maybe it would turn out that the government covered up the past movies and they forced the old cast to take new identities. As the movie went on I realized the trailer lied to fans. That annoyed me. Then they shoe horn a connection into the post credits?
So a bunch of fans take out their anger in the form of stupid sexism, but you think we should have defended a movie that lied in its trailer, didn’t know or understand the source material on more than a surface level, and whose humor was totally the opposite of the original film (and basically every incarnation since)? What is it was a male cast? Would it be ok to hate the movie then? Maybe the media shouldn’t have pushed forward a bunch of twitter and youtube comments. Maybe Feig should have had some control over his cast. He literally said he let the cast take control of his movie and it shows. Again, the interview scene with Kevin was 45 mins of adlib and the best we got was a dog named Mike Hat!!! The scripted parts, written by a woman, were actually pretty good. Oh, but look at me being sexist.
“But the people involved with ATC also raise money for good causes”–Hmm. I’m not sure what you are trying to say here? What does that have to do with the media ignoring the good deeds of fans?
I just have to say…I think you are way off base with your accusations and I personally find them kind of offensive. Saying the fandom deserves to be ridiculed in the press because of the actions of a few, is just wrong. Keep in mind that those that were attacked are celebrities. What did you want the fandom to do? Shout down the idiots that were making the rest of us look bad? Defend Leslie Jones against the idiots that attacked her? Because that happened. I saw it happen on this very website. Otherwise I don’t know what you expect from fans? Go see a movie some of us didn’t like? Spend our hard earned money again again when some of those same cast members turned around and stereotyped the people that didn’t like the movie or criticized its existence out of non sexist ideals? Calling us basement dwellers and blah blah blah? You are generalizing the actions of a few and I think it’s wrong.
I say something like “Gb fans don’t deserve this. They have done charity, raised money, donated their time and resources for good causes” and you come out with “ATC also raised money for good causes” like it invalidates what I’m getting at. Yes it’s a good thing all around but how does that relate to Gbfans doing good deeds? And when I say fans I mean all fans. Fans of the movies, the reboot, the cartoons, the video games, whatever.
So I’m not sure what you wanted to happen. Obviously you wanted the movie to be a success. As far as attacking the cast, are you keeping a list of who defend them and who didnt? No? Then it’s unfair of you to generalize and say fandom turned their back on them. Damn, I hated this movie and STILL bought a blu ray copy. Why? Because I love this franchise and did my part to keep the flame alive. Don’t forget that some of the cast and director weren’t exactly angels, yes they were being attacked online. But I work in the industry, you have no idea the support these people get. No idea. That doesn’t excuse the attacks by any means but it’s not like they were alone and didn’t have the tools required to deal with online bullying. That’s part and parcel of big blockbusters movies, just for insurance reasons. The studios want their butts covered just incase anything ever happens lawsuit wise.
The movie came out. It failed at the Boxoffice. The Stars were bullied by a relative few morons, some fans came to their defense. Some didn’t. The world kept spinning. a GB3 is announced, fans are attacked in the press and you think it’s deserved out of some sort of misguided notion that the fans turned their back cast when you know full well that MOST of those fans were against the very idea of a reboot and not sexist. How many more fans needed to come to the defense of the cast for you to feel better about the actions fans took? 10? 200? 1,000? Because we don’t know the numbers. It all depends on what you read, when and where you read it. So again, I think you are off base here. You sound as if you are holding onto a grudge.
I believe that the majority of Ghostbuster fans are good people. Obviously, you think otherwise. But please try to rethink your generalizations. It only splits us as fandom further and further apart. Can’t we let the healing begin?
Except your doing it again. With terms like “relative few morons” anything to lessen the importance of it. I’m saying the ATC cast did good but that wasn’t mentioned when the fans attacked them. The fans as whole didn’t do enough.
Same stuff attacked star wars fans even ones like me who hate new stuff rallyed in a a way where the media knew not all star wars fans are like that.
Ghostbusters fans are still attacking them to this day. Actually started supporting the Channing Tatum reboot film , and just go "oh it was only a few " and trivialised it in a way that lead to real life attacks , I’ve mentioned a teenage girl in my filter getting assaulted for been a girl who likes Ghostbusters from older fans. Let me guess that was just trival to you too right? They can assult her because fans who aren’t them did good deeds right? It’s disgusting and sick how you are excusing what they did to multiple women.
No not all Ghostbusters fans are bad , the ghosbuststers fandom as a whole though has done bad and allowed hatred to be targeted in their name as the exuse all the sexist ■■■■ as “only a few” and then argue most just hate it’s a reboot when that wasn’t was what happening.
So yes the fandom deserves the brush it’s painted with. Sorry it does.
I had a heart to heart with a female GB at a recent convention. She’s part of a group that dressed up as busters from ATC. Awesome suit, but I didn’t see her pack.
Anyways, I asked her if it really was bad for her during the 2016’s release and she opened my eyes a bit. It was really tough for her to fit in with other busters because of the hate coming out from the film. And she wasn’t judged just for being female, but because she was just a fan of the movie. She says it’s improved a lot back then, but I realized you didn’t have to be sexist dick to be a dick to fans of the reboot.
How dare you accuse me of thinking a girl getting assaulted is trivial. Or that I’m exusing anyone’s bad behaviour. You don’t know me and I’ve stated MULTIPLE TIMES that this kind of behaviour is vile.
I’m done with you. You’re a terrible person and I’m done with you. I’m not a mod, and I’m sure I’ll get downvoted or something for this, but based on this post, I believe you should be banned unless you apologize. At no point have I done anything but express disgust and remorse for anyone bullied because of their beliefs.
If you aren’t banned or don’t apologize, I’ll just be blocking you. How dare you.
Now people saying the fans should have done more should be banned? no.
If anyone should appologize its fans like you who make out it was such a small number it didn’t matter. It was a huge number. I know it , you know it , the people they attacked know it.
You making threads to help spread the rumour that it wasn’t a huge number and they were justified as you think the movie sucks should get banned. Again the movie is 74% on rotten tomatoes so clearly it was a good film objectivity speaking as 74% of people who critique the film found it good.
You know exactly what your doing and acting offended when people say the fans should do more or acting like they should be banned is exactly the problem and the toxic attiude that’s hurt the fandom to the degree it’s looked at it like it is. I’m offended you trivialise the actual victims to pretend like your the victim and they are the bad guys. It’s disgusting
My impression is that a small number of FANS became hostile. A large number of TROLLS, who were NOT part of the fan base, did most of the damage.
To be honest, I feel no responsibility to apologize for anyone else’s behavior. In my mind the cast and Feig were unprofessional in how they dealt with the backlash and at that point became “mutual combatants.”
Leslie Jones was paid to act in a movie. She was not some random cosplayer or a little girl who took flack at a Halloween party - she is supposedly a professional actress with an agent and an entire studio to handle PR. It was a JOB, and that job is over. None of us owe anything to Leslie Jones.
Feig set out with an agenda. Not one of equality, but one of “getting back’” at adult male GB fans for some generalized slight that most of us were apparently guilty of. He said as much, I’m not making this up. Personally, I was highly offended to be generalized, insulted, and excluded by Paul Feig, and I have no sympathy for him either.
Some of the even-tempered backlash was DESERVED. Many fans were painted with the broad brush of sexism and that is wrong, too. I for one think that GhostCorps owes the fans a little peace offering after how they treated us in 2016. If you MUST blame someone, blame Sony.
There was a lot of painting with broad brushes on both sides. We as a community have never been perfect, and the summer of 2016 (and the year before that) exposed an ugly face that was lurking beneath a Ghostbusters-logo emblazoned surface.
I think 2020 is a chance for use to make a change in how we conduct ourselves, and try make up for the mistakes of our and our community’s past. The first step going forward is acknowledging and accepting that the reboot/Answer the Call/2016 is an official part of the franchise, like it or not - it’ll always be a part of us. We don’t have to be a fan of it, but there is nothing to be gained from arguing about it or slagging it off any more than already has.
To use an old phrase, “either take a shit, or get off the damn pot”.
The next step, is gearing ourselves towards Ghostbusters 2020… But maybe try to cool down the obsessiveness that contributed to what happened in 2015/2016 - It’ll also help us reduce any disappointment we have if we don’t enjoy 2020 as much as we hope we will.
I’m not saying let’s all join hands and sing “Kumbaya”, but maybe a few changes in our approach and habits might help thin out that wall of negative psycho-magnatheric ectoplasm encasing this forum and the wider community.
I’m having trouble vwith you whole post full of cumulative assumptions, but this seems to be the core believe and I want to point out how much this doesn’t make sense to me.
He set out with an agenda to get back at GB fans? He made the movie to spite us? How does that work? Sony, Reitman, Dan and all happily go along with this and throw 144 million at it, Feigs career is hanging on this and he just want to spite the fans?
If we all did less of this hyperbole, we all would get along a lot more. You can dislike a movie without making the director a villain.
The backlash consisted if a lot of mysognists and trolls comments. We have seen this happen again and again, also by doctor who. He attacked them, and acknowledged he understood real fans (the biggest group) had legit doubts. Media had a field day ofcourse and trolls did their best to warp content. You say you have proof he said he made the movie to spite us.
I’d love to see some proof for such a bold statement, because to me it feels like you just dislike the fact it’s a reboot, and believed some troll that Feig must be a villain to GBfans.
I mean, I met the guy in the run up, when all the negativity was happening, and he was just absolutely lovely to me as a male GB fan. There was no sense of an agenda or any such nonsense, he was just happy to hear that I was excited for the film and was super gracious to all on a miserable Wednesday afternoon in cold ass London.
He always has been happy to meet and talk to any and all fans who engage him in actual conversation and even dropped a nod to Ghosthead Ryan Kemp in the credits.
After the film came out and lots of folks were down on him, he still donated a bunch of money to one of the franchises for charitable stuff. There was no need to do that, and it’s not like he made a big fuss about it either. He just likes Ghostbusters stuff and was paying attention.
Point is, Paul Feig is a decent guy. He really is. He made the film he wanted to make, in line with his other movies. He makes films with funny women and feels they are under represented, which they just straight up are. It’s not that controversial a position. It’s just a male director being a mensch in a sexist industry. When he got relentlessly trolled (the key word there being relentlessly) he finally snapped and shouted back. There isn’t a person on the planet who wouldn’t have done the same under that barrage.
No one has to like the movie, but none of the cast or crew meant any of it as an insult to Ghostbusters fans, for heavens sake. His decision to do a reboot was partly so he wouldn’t sully the originals with a follow up that didn’t do the first two justice. All anyone need do is read his intro to Ghostbusters 101 to see where his heart is.
I’m legit curious what Montclaire’s answer is going to be, because it’s accusations like that, that even gets likes, what triggers the media to dislike us.
Do you have selective memory loss? Feig most definitely expressed this in interviews and social media, and then there is the final product itself. If someone has a reference to this at their fingertips please post, it will take me some time to dig back.
At most, at the absolute most it can be argued one very brief snippet of a short scene: the ATC Ghostbusters’ response to the internet trolls, was a reaction/retort to the “fans” who’d been insulting and harassing him and his crew all through the film’s production. It was a quick bit, and then it was over, moving on to the next scene.
The whole film wasn’t done as some sort of revenge ploy.
Maybe I am thinking of the extended cut, but there are a few jabs. First there is the YouTube comment section stuff. Then there is the guy on the street who is a stereotypical nerd they bunch in the face. Then there is Rown himself who is another sterotypical nerd/loser whose insulted by being called a virgin who lives in his moms basement. And of course let us not forgetbthat they fight the Ghostbusters logo.
These are just examples of how the movie wasnt trying to stand on its own merits. They tried to guilt people into seeing the movie because they knew it wasnt blockbuster material.
The problem is by attacking the trolls they ended up attacking the fanbase itself which lead to more division. In the end, a movie isnt going to win by attacking the fans. Star Wars is going through a similar situation which is why Solo bombed.
From the man himself in an interview for A Simple Favour last year:
Ghostbusters had ceased to be a film. It was now a political battleground. And it’s a transformation that still frustrates Feig to this day. “It became a political thing,” he says. “I think that’s why we didn’t do as well at the box office as we should have, because it’s a fun, summer movie. Some people were, like, we should make it every woman’s duty to go out and support this movie, but nobody wants that. I don’t want to go see a movie that’s, like, you have to make a statement by going to see this movie. I just want to go for fun.”
Some rabid agenda stuff on display there.
When he called people out, he was calling out trolls. If you weren’t doing that you don’t have to feel worried or offended by anything he said when he lashed out. If you feel tainted by association, blame the trolls that made life so miserable for Feig and Jones in particular - they’re the ones that made us look bad. Just them.
And Rowan as the logo came about as a nod to the intro of The Real Ghostbusters. It was deep fandom, not a diss. The other stuff… that was happening in wider society, it is still happening in wider society. It was as worth addressing as the independent business politics and the science vs. religion of the original and the ‘treat others with kindness’ of the sequel. It wasn’t aimed at Ghostbusters fans, it was aimed at men who are horrible to women. There seems to be a section of Ghostbusters fans who just don’t get that. The people who go ‘don’t bring politics into…’ etc, etc as though anything is truly apolitical.
Basically, if you’re not someone who treats women badly, you’re not being intentionally insulted by any part of the narrative of this film.
Just Leslie. Paul defended her as his cast member and said he was open to Jason Reitman’s new film. Which is exactly what he ought to do. Professional and courteous.
On top of that, he adds they have been harrashed by trolls for three years now. Three whole years of vile, hatefull comments every day. Let that sink in. Feig once lashed back once to a particular troll and trolls ran with this as if he attacked the fandom, instead of one immature idiot, who at that point harrashed the crew on a daily basis.
We can’t just ignore that when we focus on an emotional outcry by Leslie. I still don’t think she was right, and she seems an emotional person who speaks before she thinks, but I understand where it’s coming from. Since it’s such a mirror to what happened when they announced the reboot, so should the people who disliked that announcement.
No, actually I really think you are being the one with a selective memory. I’m really curious what you will present to prove your claim that Feig hates GBfans. Even in the bit Kingpin mentions in the movie it only takes a quick jab at the trolls and mysoginists. Take your time if you must, I think it’s that important to adress.
Erin punches a vlogger because he confronts her on a secret in het past and streams this live as he does it. Why is this a dig at GBfans?
Nerd in basements is a known stereotype. This is not a stab at GBfans.
Rowan is a bully and chooses the GBlogo to bully and humiliate them. He already uses their tech against them because he hates humanity, so why not the logo? It all makes sense in the world and mirrors Stay Puft as its something cute that becomes deadly. If this was intended as a slight to all GBfans, do you really think Sony, Reitman et all let them do it? I actually like his design as well!