The Lethe Theory (a.k.a. Ghostbusters 2016 is secretly canon)

Ghostbusters Discussion Ghostbusters: Answer the Call (2016)
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EDIT 15/08/2016

Hey guys. I’ve put a little (a lot) of work into this story and composed a full blown story with a foreword and detailed afterword. Check it out please and give me your thoughts.

A4 size link and A5 size link

I also gave this a new thread because I think it deserves one: [article] GB16 and The Logical Way Forwards - Ghostbusters: Answer the Call (2016) - GBFans.com

ORIGINAL POST

Hello all. Long time lurker, first time poster. How are you?

Somewhere through my second viewing of the new Ghostbusters film I realised this is not actually a reboot, but something much more exciting. The universe of GB84, GB2, the Video Game, the IDW comic series, and GB16 form a cohesive timeline with just a few missing pieces.

Rich subtext running throughout the Paul Feig sequel centres on the premise that the original team were finally defeated some years ago.

i.e. They lost.

I’ll refer to Greek mythology for the likely culprit. Lethe is the embodiment of oblivion. The daughter of Eris, goddess of strife. She was also considered the personified spirit of forgetfulness. A benign entity in isolation, but once corrupted would feasibly have the power to subjugate – and manipulate – an entire people.

Were a team of individuals to oppose her and lose, it would be conceivable that her punishment would be a form of Damnatio Memoriae, wherein they would be erased from the memories of everyone who ever knew of them. Which, in the case of the Ghostbusters, would need to be on a global scale.

In all forms but physical, they would cease to exist. However, traces would remain. Such a widespread application could never be perfect. Most notably, the individuals themselves would remain with little or no recollection of their previous identities, besides a tendency towards repeating old patterns.

Which is to say:

  • Ray Stantz still drives the streets of his beloved New York, serving the people in a taxi cab.

  • Winston Zeddemore is a funeral director, laying the dead to rest. He even has a collection of hearses.

  • Peter Venkman finds fame and fortune on television, through his unmistakable brand of cynicism (under the stage name of Martin Heiss, a spiritual debunker).

  • Janine Melnitz runs the front desk of the Mercado hotel, which happens to lie on a convergence of spiritual energy (laylines).

To viewers of these films, several clues are arranged which the characters wouldn’t understand:

  • The existence of ghosts is no longer accepted by the general public.

  • The GB84 fire station is selected as the preferred base of operations for the new team.

  • A graffiti artist tags a “no ghosts” logo on a subway from subconscious memory (often without even looking).

  • Jillian Holtzmann finds inspiration from that logo to recreate the Ectomobile.

  • Slimer still exists, apparently unchanged in over thirty years.

Hints as to how the film series can move forwards are primarily placed in front of Erin Gilbert, laying the groundwork for a future plotline:

  • Analysis of background noise recorded within that fire station reveals the name Zuul (suggesting that minions of other gods cannot be erased so easily, backed up by the existence of the Stay Puft balloon).

  • Erin encounters a taxi driver with deep, inherent, inexplicable knowledge of spiritual classification.

  • A sculpted bust at the Columbia University is of a person no one can remember, of whom no record exists.

  • The supposed members of Homeland Security drop threats that “people always forget” supernatural events, raising questions of their own involvement / identity.

A minimal number of triggers could prompt the new team to investigate further, and one final point deserves special consideration: The technology developed to capture ghosts in 2016 bears some stark similarities to the 1984 equipment (though with the advances would might expect from modern science). Whereas this gear is undeniably conceived and manufactured by Holtzmann, she has guidance from her mentor.

The physical form of Dana Barrett, with a degree of suggested insanity.

And parts of the mind of Egon Spengler.

So the big questions: What exactly happened in the battle with Lethe? Did the goddess leave or is the whole world still under her control?

And if mankind really is in chains, what can the Ghostbusters – new and old – do to set things right?

CH

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Okay, this? This is absolutely the best theory on connecting the two films I’ve read yet, if not a little depressing. Well done!

3

Someone get this to Reitman STAT!!!

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Thanks guys. I tried pitching this to Ghostcorp first but… unsolicited.

5

Awesome! The chains could be the leylines, which, since Rowan ruptured those, start to weaken the hold just enough for some character to remember shards of the past.

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I love this idea! I shall pray tirelessly to Gozer itself so that this comes to revelation. Using old deities & mythology to explain the reboot is a well thought out storyline! Truly the best my friend! :cool:

You…you’ve earned it.

image

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It’s a neat fan theory, but like any attempt to tie the films, it just feels forced.

Let’s be honest, the new movie was made without any connection to the original. Feig specifically set out to create a completely different set of films and there is no tying them together without jumping through some tremendous hoops using mental gymnastics.

Which is ridiculously ironic because Sony desperately wants a Ghostbusters cinematic universe… but in the process of making a new film, decided to ignore the original universe. It’s mind bogglingly inept.

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Very nice! Well written and explained, quite impressive…

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Nice theory, sound like it would fit right in with The Real Ghostbusters (that’s a high compliment btw as RGB is my favourite Ghostbusters )

My main problem, and it’s a problem I have with all the theories and story ideas put forward for joining universes into one is it kinda takes away something from the new team and their path to becoming GB, like they’re accidentally rediscovering rather than purposefully discovering if that makes sense?

Don’t get me wrong I’d love to see the old guys back on screen with the new guys but part of me wants to see them do their own thing now.

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I agree completely. The new team should carry the torch going forwards. It’s actually an interesting concept for them to explore that someone had been there before them, using the same tech and working in the same building, yet no one remembers.

How much involvement the original team would have after this story would need some consideration, but I’d suspect not much. Like it or not, age has made them better suited as mentors (or rather consultants).

Plus Winston is Patty’s uncle, so he’s not going anywhere!

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I should add that the GB16 crew still discover ghosts for themselves, set up their own business, and develop several variants on the tech. They still save the world from Rowan without help and will form the main team in the future.

You’re right again. Their autonomy needs to be more or less unchallenged.

But the logo, firehouse, and car have a deeper connection. And the original team deserve an appropriate sendoff story.

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Shouldn’t that be a twinkie?

To GBfan: love the theory. I could definitely get behind that.

One thing though: perhaps they DIDN’T “lose.” In 2016 gb, there are no ghosts until someone starts bringing them back. Perhaps the original ghostbusters found a way to close a door or portal on ALL the ghosts … but at the cost of their own existence … the could bust all the ghosts, but it would cause them to written out of history completely.

But, as you say, traces remain.

Either way, GBfan, it’s a very creative theory.

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Well just like the scene in GB84, Peter gives Egon a Crunch bar because he earned it, but I do tip my hat to you similarly! Twinkies would be a great substitute.

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A brilliant idea and one that ties the two universes together without doing the whole “parallel dimension” thing that we have seen before.

The only thing that you didn’t address was the absence of the original team’s containment unit in the basement of the HQ, or what happened to the original Ecto-1 and the original equipment.

If losing to Lethe wipes out their identities as ghostbusters, so that the entire ghostbusters operation never even existed, that explains why there is no equipment at all. But then it begs the question as to why Gozer didn’t take over the world in 1984.

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Wouldn’t past events that took place/reached conclusion prior to the global erasure be unaffected…or would the entire timestream itself be rewritten?

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I pretty much imagine a trailer, granted this theory turned out to be true, having a sequence where the new Ghostbusters are knocking down a wall in the basement, unexpectedly uncovering a sealed up room containing the old containment unit and perhaps even old packs, tech and files. Thickening the plot!

While I don’t dare to assume something along the lines of this theory is the actual truth, I really like it. Unlike a lot of theories like this in popular culture it doesn’t really feel like that much of a stretch with all the little things you can find throughout the movie. There’s also just something about all the old buster cameos that just seem a little.. off and deliberate, I agree. Even the ambiguous(right?) fate of Murrays character could be read as intentional in light of his history with the old sequel.

Who knows, it’s maybe(probably) entirely coincidental, but what a twist it would have been!

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One way to work in the '84 GBs could be presented in the line that Ray delivers to Gozer, “I order you to seize any and all supernatural activity, and return forth with to your place of origin, or to the nearest convenient parallel dimension”. The sequel could even callback to it in the opening, like they did in Star Trek 3 with Spock’s death.

If Gozer couldn’t conquer their world, the 2016 GBverse could be the next one, and the old guard is trying to warn the 2016 verse of the big ass twinkee headed their way.

18

Damn this just blew my mind I really want this to be true.

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Pretty neat, right? And its canon too!

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Loving the feedback guys. Thank you. Currently working on fleshing this out into something more detailed with some of your ideas as well. It probably won’t amount to anything, but it more-or-less writes itself so I kind of can’t stop!

Lethe is a water nymph, a minor goddess or best, so she needs a big bad pulling the strings from behind or else it’s a stretch to accept she could brainwash the whole world single-handed.

After all, Gozer couldn’t even choose her own form.