In another thread I saw where the Thrower barrel had been broken off at the box. I recalled a similar experience while Putting together the thrower of my first pack and I was wondering why the length of PVC pipe (or material of choice) isn’t inserted further inside the gun Box and reinforced inside. This could give the Barrel more strength and make it harder to snap off. Is this because it would make the gun heavier or would it get in the way of electrical components? In case your wondering, no I didn’t do that with my first thrower because I ran out of materials.
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It’s usually a room issue.
My last pack had electronics, extending tip, speaker and vibrating motor inside so it was a little tight.
The barrel doesn’t really go inside the gunbox. There is a nub on the gunbox which the barrel partially slides over. What you are seeing in that pic is the nub broken off from the gunbox. Resin gun kits are going to be like this because it’s accurate, however there is a danger of weakness after a hole is drilled through for the wires and extension mechanism. If you were building from scratch, you could extend the pvc into the box and then somehow cosmetically make it look accurate on the outside, creating the illusion of the front nub, however it would not allow for a rotating barrel.
Has anyone tried to reinforce it somehow?
It rotates? I thought it was static, but it makes sense as it makes for a more comfortable grip on the barrel..
Yep, rear is static, front rotates…though I’ve seen quite a few builds where the front it static, but the rotating grip is accurate.
Really, it SHOULDN’T rotate but in the rooftop scene the set screw on Dan’s thrower was loose and he twisted it (possibly as part of a joke) so it’s considered a canon option.
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I’ve always been under the impression that the front handles rotated. Not only do we see rotation during the, “make 'em hard,” scene on Ray’s thrower, but there are various reference pictures that add credence as well.
Take the OMNI for example. Notice the position of the front handle?
And there is Venkman’s pack, a.k.a., the Minnesota. Again, notice how the ears are in a vertical position, while the trigger tip banjo stays static? The position of the top knob and Clippard help give it some orientation as well.
So that’s three throwers that feature the front handle in various positions other than the basic static position. To me, it’s much more likely that the handles were made to rotate rather than there being at least three broken or loose handles. Just my two cents.
The throwers do rotate, I think thats Jack’s version of trollin’.
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No, I’m serious. Given the design of the front barrel assembly there are only 2 things holding the whole thing on, the set screw in the rear block and the wires that power the flash bulb/hat light.
You do NOT want wires being the only thing holding that together especially when twisting is a metal-on-metal scenario that could cut or pull the wires. If I were to guess I’d say the set screws weren’t that secure and often became loose but they didn’t really care as they weren’t using the packs that much while filming. Hang it by the wires if you want to but I wouldn’t trust it for any length of time.
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Are we out of new discoveries and just making them up as we go now?
You’re completely wrong. The wires were run externally at the length they’re at BECAUSE it rotates.
I’ve already recreated these aluminum throwers completely and have handled a screen used hero and they do rotate.
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I’m not debating that they can rotate, I’m unconvinced that they were DESIGNED to. I’d be interested in seeing your design Vince as it’s the first I’ve heard of it. My theory is based on the evidence I’ve seen and Occam’s razor, I’d love to have more info.
Has anyone ever suggested that there might be two metal shafts on the front barrel? One that goes into the gun box, but runs all the way up becoming the barrel collar (instead of just ending like on TC’s box). Then there is a second slightly larger shaft that has the grip/ gun ears attached that slides over the smaller tube. That way you would be able to twist the grip freely, but still keep the trigger tip in a fixed location. I’m sorry if this doesn’t make sense, I could try to photoshop what I’m talking about if that would help.
I think you’re describing what I’m talking about.
Ok, mburkit pointed something out to me on the spengler photos.
It doesn’t have either of the 2 screws in the short piece attached to the gun body, but if you look down the barrel:
You see a screw sticking in to the barrel. He says there’s probably a screw under the grip and a groove in the inner barrel that holds it together. I’ve not seen this before, is this similar to what your design in Vince?
Here’s a pic that shows the threading in the rear grip block for a set screw I was talking about:
I haven’t seen that picture but it looks like what I was imagining. Thanks!
There’s 3 tubes, nested inside each other; The outer one with the grip attached (since size as the collar on the front of the wand, a middle one that is the plain colored one you see, and then the inner most wraps around the acrylic tube. That allows for the 6-DOF accurate to the film. Unfortunately, barring complete disassembly of this section of the prop, there’s no way to be 100% on the exact mechanics involved. The only thing one can do is interpose their own designs that make the outward appearance match the film, but there’s multiple ways to skin the cat.
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I’d be glad to post my drawings and photos of my current thrower pieces once I’ve finished my run.
What you can’t see in photos is a set screw under the front grip. That allows for rotation of the outer front barrel and also stops that piece from sliding off. The inner tube (which you see the tip of coming out of the front barrel) is stationary and the 2 set screws in the nub on the main body penetrate into that inner tube. That keeps the entire inner mechanism stationary and aligned. The inner-most tube, springs, armature and the acrylic harness also do not rotate. The only thing I can’t prove is how many degress of rotation the screen used packs had because the metal was seized up pretty badly.
It’s one thing to have a theory, but to matter-of-factly state it is a bit extreme, especially when it’s to a new member.
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Until today it was fact to me and one I often thought others got wrong. Glad to see new information is being shared so we as a group can improve our theories. I still think it’s odd that the front grip would be designed to rotate, seems overly complex to me but an interesting feature if done purposely.
Before I begin my rant, I would like to answer the OP’s question: the real metal wands in the films did not have the barrel extending into the gun body BUT if you feel you need yours to to make it more sturdy because your wand is made out of something other than metal, by all means, do so, so you are comfortable and confident in your build.
Okay, now onto the rant.
The front barrel is comprised of 3 tubes of different lengths and wall thickness. So we can all keep this straight, here’s a “key” to the vocabulary I’m about to use.
“Outer Tube”: The aluminum tube that the grip and gun ears are attached to.
“Inner Tube”: The aluminum tube that is seated within the outer tube.
“Acrylic Spacer”: The smallest of the aluminum tube used in the front handle. This is the tube that the acrylic tube (“Clear tip”) is seated into within the front handle assembly.
“Acrylic Tip”: The “clear tip” that is seen extending from the front handle and has the trigger tip mounted on it.
Okay, time to get down to brass tax.
This photo illustrates all 3 aluminum tubes that the front handle is made off.
Moving from the inside out, you can see the acrylic spacer, inner tube, and outer tube.
What we know: The outer tube is secured some how to inner tube via a set screw, as visible in the above photo. The outer tube can rotate, and it rotates independently of the rest of the tubing of the front handle assembly. Here’s some photos to prove that point.
In this photo, you can see the orientation of the trigger tip, as well as paint on the end of the inner tube and the set screws holding the inner tube securely into the “stem” of the gun body.
Now look at this picture as the front barrel is rotated:
Notice that the trigger tip and the paint on the inner tube has not changed orientation, meaning they have not rotated with the outer tube.
So how do they do this? No one knows for certain but we can take a wild guess from the photos we do have. There is most likely a set screw underneath the front grip. In the inner tube, there is most likely a groove cut into it so the set screw can travel through the outer tube, into the groove and allow for the outer tube to rotate a set distance. All of this can be supported by what is seen in the film as well as our photos of the props.
As far as the exact mechanism that stops the acrylic spacer and acrylic tip from rotating as well as extends them when the green lever is operated; once again, no one is certain, but its most likely due to whatever mechanism they used for the extension of the acrylic tip. From what we can see in the film, this mechanism is probably spring loaded and is actuated via the green lever. I would bet money that this unknown mechanism holds the acrylic tip in the front handle and stops it from rotating. Once again, we have guesses as to how this works, but even with our photos we have, its all kinda a shot in the dark.
i know i dont post a lot but i wanted to throw in this,
that screw everyone is seeing has nothing to do with the handle tube holding on, that is a screw that goes though the clear tube holder and into the clear tube, there is another angle of that photo, where you can see that screw is in front of the broken off clear tube, there is no grove for it to side though on the inner tube, so if that was holding the grip on the tip would never pop out.
more evidence of this is seen in the other angle photo, where you can see the rubbing the screw has made on the inner tube. the rubbing stops the same distance that screw would set at if the barrel was extended. so end results that screw there is only for holding the clear tube.
there is no set screw in the grip lock, one can be added so it never rotates, but in each photo that’s out there, i have never seen one. they may have had an idea to use one at one point but decided not to, its mainly there just to hold the grip one,
the screw for holding the barrel on is in the grip, but it does not feed all the way though the inner tube, its just a screw that has been cut down for both wall thicknesses so about 1/8th in length, no unfortunately the one gun i was allowed to hold i was not allowed to remove the grip, so the grove that allows it to rotate, can be either on the inner tube, or on the handle itself, ive always thought it was on the inner tube, but lately im starting to think it might be on the handle, hidden behind the grip.
now my reason for why have it rotate, anyone that has a proton gun try keeping the handle in one position and aiming it around the room, its annoying to aim, with a rotating handle you get a much better aim, and feel, that’s also easier on the wrist.