How would you change Frozen Empire?

Ever since Chicken, He Clucked made a post about the changes they’d have made to Frozen Empire, I haven’t been able to stop thinking about how some revisions across the board would make it a better and more coherent movie, even if I still liked it about the same on a second viewing. Here’s my revision, which is largely based on the final product.


The opening is basically the same, although I would have positioned the Fire Master at the other end of the room, so that the frozen scene is almost like a tableau telling a story, where the Manhattan Adventurers’ Society played the chant and suffered the consequences, but the Fire Master was there to capture Garakka in the orb.

Instead of jumping right into the action, there is some establishing material at the firehouse, where the Spenglers are still moving in. There is setup to the fact that Winston is waiting to show them something, but they don’t know what it is. Phoebe has helped get much of the electronics and equipment in the firehouse running, while Trevor has little to do and feels conflicted about it. They receive a surprise call and nobody is sure they are supposed to be active, but Gary convinces them to go because he’s excited to try it. The Sewer Dragon bust proceeds mostly as it is in the finished film, although there is more emphasis on the idea that Trevor’s job is to operate the RV trap, and that Callie ends up taking his place with the drone trap.

The scene in Peck’s office is basically the same, except that it is established that the Ghostbusters have a standing license to operate within the city limits that hasn’t expired, something established after the events of Ghostbusters II. His focus on Phoebe’s age is the one way he can undermine the team, so he takes his opportunity to do so and has her benched. More scenes that are basically the same: Callie gives Gary permission to play parent to Phoebe. Phoebe goes to the park and lays out the chessboard. I’d add a line from her, basically to herself, asking what Egon would do before the chessboard moves, to emphasize the idea that she briefly wonders if it’s Egon before she meets Melody.

Over at Ray’s Occult Books, the same basic scenes occur: the YouTube show, Phoebe coming by to deliver the mood slime and see Podcast, and Nadeem delivers the orb. Two minor corrections to this scene: Ray seems to know what it is in the finished movie, but then of course he’s got to go to Wartzki later, so I would clean that up, and I would also simply remove the Mini-Pufts from this scene as their behavior is different than it is later in relation to the orb, which makes no sense to me. The orb awakens, creating issues with the containment unit. When Phoebe is stumped by it, Trevor tries to help a little in a way that makes him a nuisance. When they tell him to stop being a brat, he asks for help with the attic, and Callie suggests it could be a way to show he’s a responsible adult, so he embarks on his attempts to catch Slimer.

The gang calls Winston, who arrives with Lars, and the various scenes through at the PRC play out as in the film. Ray brings the orb there, but is less casual in handing it over (his reaction to the orb in these early scenes is all over the place, and I’d like them to be more consistent). At night, Lars and Lucky try to extract the ghost from the orb and it rattles the PRC. Unlike in the film, the proton fields around the rooms have independent generator/batteries and so there is no risk of the ghosts escaping. Lars and Lucky record the chant. Phoebe is left alone and sneaks out on the call with Podcast only to find the call is for Melody. (I would change the dialogue so she openly acknowledges she met Melody before to Podcast, so that he’s less confused.)

The next day, the gang returns to the PRC so that Lars and Lucky can talk about the orb. During the discussion, the orb rattles the PRC again, but this time, it cracks the observation tank holding the Mini-Pufts, one of which sneaks out and de-activates the Possessor’s generator, releasing it and allowing it to jump into Podcast’s bag. Afterward, Phoebe talks to Ray at the bookstore. I’d give their conversation about what it would be like to be a ghost more time to breathe, before Ray receive the recorded chant from Lars and Lucky, and he thinks of Wartzki. They go to the library, and everything basically plays out the same way. Only change I’d make is that Peck should criticize Phoebe about destroying the lion, rather than Winston, who should be more concerned about Ray. Gary and Callie half agree but dislike Peck, so they only partially criticize her, but the fight is basically the same. Simultaneously, Lars, Lucky, and Trevor go to retrieve Nadeem and have Venkman interrogate him, identifying him as the Fire Master and bringing him back to the firehouse.

Phoebe, wanting to spend more time with her new friend and wanting to know what it feels like to be a ghost, realizes that the extraction machine will allow her to do that (this is presented passively in the film, I would rather it be something we see her coming up with quickly in the movie). She gets into the machine, Garakka uses her to come alive, and Garakka escapes the PRC. Unlike in the movie, New York does not freeze over, but it is caught in a freak snowstorm.

At the firehouse, the gang learns (as in the deleted “Ghost Chopper” scene) that the containment unit is essentially a fulfillment of Garakka’s prophecy, so Garakka is coming there after retrieving his horns from Nadeem’s place. Phoebe tells Gary that the proton packs won’t work, and Gary believes her, solidifying their bond, but there is no time for them to do anything about it before Garakka appears and freezes them. While that happens, Phoebe devises the plan involving brass and gets Garakka with the modified pack, with the help of Nadeem. (Unlike in the movie, I don’t think the moment where it looks like even Phoebe’s pack won’t work is strictly necessary, Nadeem can jump in without such a dramatic pause.) I would also add a little touch where Nadeem uses his Fire Master powers to weld the containment unit shut. As in the film, Melody moves onto the other side, and there is more of an emphasis on Callie allowing Trevor to drive at the end, with Gary visibly backing the decision in a way that makes Trevor feel like they are giving him more responsibility.


Anyone else have changes they’d like to make to the film?

One minor bit I’ve thought about was deleting the Melody scene after she first visits the Firehouse and Garraka communes with her to hurry up. I think the reveal at the PRC and the conversation in the basement before Phoebe goes up to fight Garraka was enough. I didn’t really care for the reveal being so early on in the movie.

I have totally new 3rd act in mind.

I am not sure what to do with the 1st act But the “final” battle at the firehouse does not end well.. and is more the middle of the movie..

instead of trapping Garraka he escapes with all the ghosts in to new york. Garraka then either goes to a skyscraper or a bridge(like we see in all the posters for this movie) Moving on:

Now that Phoebe has figured out the whole thing about brass in the proton packs and managed to “sorta” hold/keep Garraka at bay she has now proven to every single person in that firehouse that she is indeed worthy of being a Ghostbuster, So now she and Lars starts taking all the packs(at this point we haven’t seen the new packs, the whole part where Peck takes the old packs is cut) they start giving the old packs the brass “upgrade” but finds out because how wild

the cyclotron now moves around the normal bumper cant hold the thing, Winston then remember the “new prototype packs” Lars has been working that has “drumroll please” the new reinforced yellow bumper, while Winston, Lars and Phoebe makes the new packs ready, Lucky, Ray and the others also figure out that if they charge the brass it can help protect them from the death chill out in frozen New York (Here comes the red parka sinto play) they take the Parkas and make all the small gizmos you see on them and puts them in the Parkas, they then split into 3 teams the OGs and the new Spengler’s and Gary, the OGs takes the Ecto out in to frozen new york while the “Spengler”" team travel on foot, Lars, Lucky and Podcast ang the Firemaster 8o look for Dr.Hubert bc he is the only one who can figure out the chant needed for the firemaster to be, able to trap Garraka ina new brass orb, On the way o. Garraka the OGs get the Ecto stuck in Ice and have to go on foot here they start to meet a group of smaller ghosts from their early days have have to bust them in the meantime the spenglers and Gary has caught up to the OGs and have gone on top of a roof on a smaller building to get a better look at the situation the OGs are in this is where they OGs are face to face with the Scaleri brothers and the library ghost, Venkman then looks at Ray and Ray then says: You guys think- we can do the (insert cool maneuver name here) without “Spanky”? Winston: We gotta try!, “Quc The theme song or on epic version of it” now they don’t do anything crazy acrobatic like the big fight scene in ATC but its just very well coordinated ang everybody is on point with janine coming in “Clutch”, at the end with the arm PI Aon pack and a trap, they have now caught all: 3 ghost with Ray saying something like

[23:13]

“Yes.. it only took over 30 years to get 3” with Venkman giving a little smile on his face (jab about Dan and Bill and the whole GB3 thing over the years) we then cut to looking at Gary and the Spenglers on the roof with gary doing the “OOohh oh oh oh” 'reaction as remember he is a fan of OG ghostbusters and he is overwhelmed how well they did compared to the chaos when he and the spenglers bust Ghosts. “more to come”..

The biggest change I would make? Theme song at the beginning. I don’t care how much the licensing is, hearing the theme as the logo fades into view fits so well.

Other than that, just expansion on whats already there. More scenes of Gary trying to figure out how to be a stepdad/leader, more of Trevor trying to figure out adult responsibility, give Callie more of an arc, maybe she’s not adapting as well to being a Ghostbuster or is primarily doing it to feel closer to her dad (I’m no writer, there are probably better ideas). Maybe everyone else sees Phoebe hanging out with Melody, and that causes friction with Callie being mad (thus pushing Phoebe further away from her family) while maybe Ray or Winston thinks its cool and they ran into friendly ghosts all the time and helped them pass on.

An actual movie soundtrack. I’m on fence if it should be new songs, classics (e.g. like how James Gunn curated his Guardians of the Galaxy soundtracks), or a mix of both. Maybe even as a neat tie-in, the soundtrack would double in-universe as Ray’s mixtape that he plays in Ray’s Occult during business hours with hits from the 70s, 80s, and 90s.

As long as I love Afterlife and Frozen Empire, I would have made a single over 2 hours movie instead of two 1 hour and 50 movies.

Set it in NY, the younger Spengler generation start to discover relics from the gb past, a new paranormal threat start emerging, Phoebe, Podcast, Lucky and Trevor start rallying the OGB for help. We learn about the Gb past from the 90s onward.

They start updating the tech, big battle. At the end of the movie GB Inc is up and running.

Cut Pinfield entirely. Give all his stuff to Lucky. Now Lucky has an actual story.

Cut the early reveal that Melody is working with Garraka. Now there’s an actual twist for the audience.

Lose the cringey Library Ghost scene. You get ONE completely extraneous throwback, and you centered Trevor’s entire plotline around Slimer, so it’s Slimer. Also, wrap up Trevor’s storyline. Either he needs to catch Slimer, or decide there’s a reason not to catch him.

Give Gary an actual earned win. Something he actually does, that Phoebe is present for, that earns him that “dad” at the end.

Some explanation around the new packs. I liked the idea Exrill tossed out about the new safety bumper and stuff being necessary to due to Phoebe’s mods.

Let’s get Garraka out by the start of the second act so we can see this “Frozen Empire”.

And for god’s sake give Callie something to do. She shines every time she’s given the spotlight in these films. What is her arc? Why is she here?

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a lot. I’d change a lot.

Add the deleted scenes in a super cut & use the instrumental OG theme for the showdown to complete the RGB vibes.

That’s it.

I adored Afterlife with its great cinematography but I was surprised to find out FE was shot by the same DP.

Frozen Empire felt flat & dull at times. I think a switch to film over digital and adding some contrast might’ve helped. I like FE but I think it’s the least interesting GB movie visually. When I think of all the neat things they could’ve done with atmospherics, nighttime, all that cold?

Also I duno if it’s bcuz I knew it wasn’t shot in New York beyond 2nd unit stuff but I’d actually shoot in NYC. The movie felt constrained. And every-time they go outside it feels off. This really stands out at home on streaming. But again maybe it’s bcuz I’m aware they didn’t shoot in NYC. Maybe the average viewer doesn’t notice.

Something I thought might be funny is during some sort of montage we quickly visit the home of Walter Peck & we find out he’s happily married to Jack Hardmeyer. It’s just a quick shot. We don’t even mention it again.

I like to think Maybe they met at some group therapy session & bonded over their shared loathing of the Ghostbusters.

What else? Oh. Right. Garraka. I don’t feel this big bad really had much of a presence. I’d love to see Garraka with a super terrifying voice.

It might’ve been interesting to also have Fire Masters have a human counterpoint the Cold Masters or whatever. And it’s the Cold Masters who are trying to bring about the rise of Garraka. Throughout history these two factions have been in a constant war raging behind the scenes of all the great conflicts of the world. Or maybe not. I duno.

I don’t think I’d change much with the core characters. I didn’t love Melody. Trevor subplot with Slimer might’ve been given some more beats.

Prepare for a movie that fundamentally doesn’t work. The most significant deleted scene on the home release, of Wartzki at the firehouse, will not work in the finished film because there is no explanation of how he gets there or where he goes.

I rewatched the movie with a friend and while he liked it, one of his criticisms was that the Garakka’s plan to use Phoebe feels like quite an arbitrary long-shot. So I have since started to rework the OP here to integrate the idea that Phoebe is the one who says to Melody that she would be interested in what it would be like to be a ghost, and that Garakka picks up on that and starts using Melody to push Phoebe in that direction.

What does he think about Vigo wanting a baby to be reborn and only focusing on Oscar in GB2?

I would take the entire film and split it into its main scenes and then flesh the scene out to 1 hour long episodes (maybe use multiple main scenes per episode) for a streaming series so we could see how they are adjusting to life in New York, and have all of the individual thoughts pan out, and then come together. Have Garaka terrorize the city for a bit, make the horns harder to get, maybe actually make the Phoebe/ Ghost relationship make sense.

I absolutely would have loved to see them moving from Summerville to NYC, picking up the equipment, etc, as well as had more Slimer, maybe have him become friends with Trevor.

Ive thought about this too. I love both simply because they give us more GB content..But maybe my problems with both would be solved if you just blend them into one super movie. Cut out the fat, so to speak.

Switch out the inheriting the Farmhouse into inheriting the Firehouse and everything else pretty much falls into place.

Fixes some hard to chew plot holes like Egon leaving and fallin out with Ray. The emotional pull can be that Ray blames himself for not being there during a call that Egon went out alone on.

You can still do the Egon’s ghost-legacy plot from afterlife. Only it all centers in and around the Firehouse. Have Ray be the most active OG throughout like in FE as they rally the band back together.

You can still have Pheobe and Trevor re-discover everything as the Firehouse is in shambles over the years, making way for all the easter eggs.

Peck is the mayor and gets in the way of the GBs re-opening midway through.

It’s completely doable and makes you wonder.

I wonder how many fans also feel this way. This is Sony’s or any studios ideal fan. They love unconditionally and just want more.

Funny. I thought the same for people that love the reboot for simply being called “ghostbusters”

I clearly go on to say i have problems with the films and dont love them “blindly”

Jesus, you guys are like having a conversation with a crazy ex girlfriend

A baby being born is not that unlikely. A human who not only wants to be a ghost but who has a device that will allow them to temporarily become one while also remaining alive is a crazy coincidence.

It’s just as much a crazy coincidence that of all the tons of babies in New York, that Vigo and Janosz myopically focuses on the one baby with a connection to the Ghostbusters which ultimately leads them going back into business and defeating them. If they nabbed any other baby, game over planet Earth. I don’t think Ray or Egon would have looked into it.

But it’s not a device intended to turn a person into a ghost temporarily. Phoebe just figured out it had that alternate function.

This would make more sense if they didn’t cut the scene where Dana asks why everything happens to her, and Egon explains that there could be some genetic link that attracts paranormal activity (Venkman specifically brings up the Zuul incident). It provided a legitimate explanation as to why Oscar would be a target, while also comically acknowledging that “yes, this stuff just always happens to Dana, don’t ask too many questions.”

It would have been even less of a crazy coincidence if Vigo directed Janosz to try to get close to Dana because she had a strong paranormal connection, instead of Janosz randomly hitting on her first and happening to think of her just when Vigo said he needed a child to possess.

The ghost machine plot in FE was completely bonkers in comparison. GBII’s plot could have been clearer just by leaving in a few sentences that were already filmed, but so many bizarre things had to align for Garraka’s plan to work (including that Phoebe’s ghost would, for some unexplained reason, remotely control her body to say the words).

Honestly. The one deleted scene in GB2 that would’ve solved that is Dana wondering out loud why this is happening to her AGAIN. I can’t stress how much they needed to keep that.

You know that the difference is? I can’t speak for Tyler’s friend but I think the keyword is “feels”. It feels arbitrary. Dana works at the art museum, Janosz had been trying to hit that. There’s some set up there. It doesn’t feel arbitrary or coincidental

With Melody and Phoebe it’s how it’s presented. It’s not, to me anyways, that Garraka chooses Phoebe it’s how the reveal is presented.

They say Garraka can control other ghosts but we only see that happen once. With Phoebe. Melody’s eyes don’t do that weird glow thing. She just says “I’m going as fast as I can”

Also, important to remember, with GB2 it’s not Vigo who selects Oscar. It’s Janosz. See the difference? Vigo doesn’t care what baby he gets. Janosz just happens to be crushing on the woman who had a supernatural problem 5 years ago.

It’s interesting to think why Melody didn’t just hang out with Patton Oswalt and ask him to play the recording? Who knows.

It’s also super weird that Pheobe does the “Ghost Walk”. She doesn’t worry about it at all. Like oh here’s this thing thing that might kill me, let me just try this out.

I read someone else say it should’ve been Ray who did this and 1000% it should’ve been Ray. Ray wonders out loud what it would be like to be a ghost. It fits with this character. His character arc. Maybe even a little guilt over Egon.