Proptronix to Replicaprops, Canakit, CONFUSION!

Hey guys,

A while ago I purchased one of the Proptronix to Replicaprops sound adapters, as I’d already had the Proptronix pack and gun light kits (which are AWESOME). Seemed easy enough, right? And then it got confusing. So at the recommendation of Mike Witt (who’s incredibly helpful, actually) I picked up the Canakit amp - http://www.electronickits.com/kit/complete/ampl/CANUK153.htm - and a 12v (8 AA batteries) power supply. I’ve actually got all of that wired in just fine… after about a 2-month battle with laziness and confusion.

The way I have it wired up now has the light kits on a seperate power supply, and everything relating to the amp on a second power supply. The sound board is connected to the amp through a single mono headphone wire from the sound board that has been split at the other end to connect to the amp.

So assuming that all of this went right, the last thing I need are speakers. There are two terminals on the amp that will accept speakers… anybody have any recommendations? I’m really clueless at all of this, so the easier, the better… I tried slicing open a set of computer speakers, but the one I hooked in is QUIET! On the back it reads 4 OHMS 3 W… Not that I have any freaking idea what that means. I also have no idea if I can hook up more than one speaker to those posts or not. So really, any help would be hugely appreciated, I miss having my pack assembled! It’s been gutted forever now!

Thanks so much!

~Matt

Okay, yeah, something is definitely wrong. I used both the computer speakers, and the speaker recommended in the DIY here: http://www.gbfans.com/community/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=14730

And it’s still SUPER quiet. Anybody have any ideas? Is the amp faulty? The speakers work, I tested them before walking out of the store… I know the batteries are BRAND NEW. So the fault is either in my wiring, in the amp, or somewhere with the proptronix/replicaprops kit. I’m so confused! Please, anybody who can offer suggestions, I’m all ears!

~Matt

You’ll have to post a photo of your wiring for anyone to help you with that.

As for the ohms and wattage ratings, it’s a bit confusing, but I’ll try to explain…

The CanaKit amp is rated 7W @ 4 Ohms when connected to a 16V supply. This means it will put out 7W of power if connected to a 4 Ohm load, if supplied with 16V.

The load is your speaker. Ohms is a measure of its inductance. (When I say inductance, just think resistance, inductance is the amount of resistance to alternating current.)

Now the amp can’t just shove as much power into the speaker as it wants to. The amount of power the speaker gets is limited by the inductance it has, much like how you can limit the amount of water that flows by turning the handle on your faucet.

So, if you connect a speaker with a higher impedance to the amp, LESS current will flow and you’ll get less sound. Connected to an 8 Ohm load, your 7W amp becomes a 3.5W amp.

Another thing you should know is that if you connect multiple speakers, you change the amount of impedance the amp sees. If you connect two 4 Ohm speakers in series, they act like an 8 Ohm speaker. If you connect them in parallel, they act like a 2 Ohm speaker (Ohms / Speakers, assuming all speakers have equal Ohn rating).

Connecting a 2 Ohm load to an amp rated for 4 Ohms would be bad. The 7W amp will try to put out 14W, and that could cause any number of problems. It could blow the amp immediately or days later, it could cause it to go into thermal shutdown to protect itself, or it could cause the sound quality to be terrible. It’s impossible to know for sure unless one studies the datasheets for the parts it uses to see what hey can handle.

Now some folks I know have connected their amps the wrong way and have gotten away with it, but remember the 7W @ 4 Ohm rating is for an 16V supply. If you supply less than 16V the amp is going to put out less than 7W of power in the first place, and maybe the amp will survive a while. Turning down the volume because the amp starts to distort above a certain volume would also reduce the power output, further protecting the amp. In fact, it may be that with that amp, if you exceed the max power output it distorts, so what you’re hearing is a direct result of exceeding the amp’s output power by connecting a 2 Ohm load to it. But I digress.

The other thing you have to worry about is your speaker’s wattage rating. You say your computer speaker says 4 Ohm 3W on the back. That’s less than 7W, so that’s bad. It’s bad because the speaker itself can be destroyed, and if it’s destroyed it might take your amp with it because when it melts it will short the amps outputs and now you have a 0 Ohm load connected. Bad times for all involved.

However, remember what I said earlier about connecting two speakers? If you want to, you could connect the speakers in series, which would increase the load to 8 Ohms and the amp would put 3.5W into that if you have a 16V supply. That’s still more than 3W, but since if you are running off 12V the output would be something less than 3.5W, and we can calculate that like so: 12V / 16V = 0.75, 0.75 * 3.5W = 2.6W. So you’d be good to go.

Do NOT connect the two speakers in parallel however. If you do that, they would become a 2 Ohm load, and then BAD THINGS would happen.

(Note that if you had a different amp, or 8 ohm speakers, connecting them in parallel might be okay.)

Oh, and one more thing… AA batteries are pretty wimpy for a setup like this. They’re probably able to supply enough power, but they’d get drained really fast. You should use C or D cells.

Hey,

Thanks for the response! My wiring isn’t very pretty, but I could probably snap a picture if you think it’d help… Just might take a few minutes before it made sense. The speaker I most recently tried using actually doesn’t have any info on the back, but the website says “8 ohm impedance. 40 Watts / 70 Watts max. 70 - 10 KHz frequency response. 83 dB @ 1W/ 1m.”… whatever that means. It works, but again, it’s SUPER QUIET. I’ve not tried hooking more than one speaker up, because I feared that hooking more than one up at a time would just make them even quieter.

So really, I’m not sure where I’m left… it seems like the batteries may be wimpy, but should still be putting out enough power (at least temporarily) for more volume. MUCH more volume.

Blarg, it’s all so confusing… What would you recommend? Just take the pics and deliver a visual? The speakers, when tested in the store, were WAAAAY louder. I know they can go louder. Just for kicks, I plugged in a normal set of computer speakers in to the Proptronix/Replicaprops sound chip/adapter, and those speakers can get plenty loud. So now I know it’s some combination of speakers, amp, and power supply that’s causing the problem… (specific, I know)…Honestly at this point I’m pretty darn sure it’s the amp, if I know the batteries are new, I know the speaker works and can get louder, and I know the sound adapter isn’t causing problems, but I suppose it could be my wiring? Somebody out there has to have used a 12V power source with a CanaKit amp, and have figured out what speaker(s) works for this… It’s not like I’m being original and paving a new path here, I’m just trying to get this to work! I’ll happily replace the speaker(s) or amp or whatever I need to, I really just want to get my pack back together, but this is like rocket science to me, and it’s getting SUPER frustrating.

Any help or suggestions, seriously, and I’ll definitely be appreciative… and GhostGuy, thanks for the response!

~Matt

The only recommendations I can make without pics of how you’ve wired it is to either get a second 8 ohm speaker and wire them in parallel, or get a single 4 ohm speaker. That will double the volume.

Running off 16V will also increase the volume.

As for why the speakers were way louder when you tested them in the store, the amps there were likely capable of putting out a bit more than 7W. More like 300W. The way they accomplish this is by boosting the voltage. That’s why putting 16V into your amp will get you more sound than 12V. The amp you have can’t boost the voltage so it’s limited to putting whatever you put into it through the fixed impedance of the speaker. A more expensive amp might draw twice as much current and use that extra current to double the output voltage. Power = Voltage^2 / Resistance, so with a fixed resistance (impedance), if you want more power to go in to the speaker you have to increase the voltage.

So knowing that, another option is to just buy a better amp. But don’t expect a 100W amp to run off AA batteries. :slight_smile: I would look for a motorcycle amp. Those would be designed to run off 12V, so you should get the full advertised wattage. But again, not from AA batteries.

Hhn. Okay. Still more problems.

I’ve now tried two Canakit amps - the amp isn’t the problem.

I’ve also tried a 4 ohm speaker, a single 8 ohm speaker, as well as two 8 ohm speakers (these: http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/GW-2048/4-40W-SHIELDED-WOOFER-8-OHM//1.html) hooked in parallel. The speakers don’t get louder, no matter what the hookup.

The batteries are all brand new. Every time I test, I swap out the batteries for new ones - I bought a pack of 48 from Home Depot for this exact reason. The batteries are still providing power. It’s an 8-AA battery holder… Which by my calculations provies 12V of power.

As far as process of elimination goes, I now know that all of the speakers and all of the amps and all of the batteries I’ve tried work fine. At this point, I’m still just as confused and frustrated as ever.

So the problem is either lying with the sound chip/sound adapter, or my wiring.

As far as my wiring goes, I’ve attached three photos - one of the amp, one of the sound chip, and one of the whole pack. Sorry if it’s small… and confusing… But it’s the best I can do without knowing what exactly people might want to see to provide help.

Now here’s where the problem may lie - the Proptronix/Replicaprops sound adapter has a single headphone jack that’s supposed to provide the ‘line out’ function. To translate this line out to the Canakit’s input, I simply sliced open a headphone cable, and plugged the two sides in. I’ve rotated them around from the WIN, the IN, and the G poles on the canakit amp. The weird thing is, no matter what the position, the sound levels are ALWAYS the same. In this photo, what I believe is the NEGATIVE wire is hooked in to the POS pole, and the POSITIVE wire is hooked in to the G pole. This… doesn’t seem like the way it should be.

But ruling out the amp, and the speakers, and

So how to go forward from here? Seriously, I’m pretty damn stumped, and WAY out of my comfort zone, and this pack has been opened up for over two months now, just waiting for some kind of solution. Really, please guys, any kind of help is greatly appreciated!

~Matt

[email protected]

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This sounds like the solution to your problem:

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/shawnswift/the-mightytm-microcontroller

:slight_smile:

That’s pretty shameless self-promotion. The parts are out there… in fact, I’ve got the parts here. I just need help putting them together correctly. That would be replacing my entire setup, WAY down the line, with a whole new setup that doesn’t even exist yet. Not really helpful. I wish you luck, but still… not really helpful.

~M

I apologize, I was trying to be funny.

I don’t know anything about wiring, and that looks like a big challenge. I wish you the best of luck, and I didn’t mean to offend you.

That’s actually my Kickstarter. He was just being a bit overzealous in promoting it.